so what exactly do you have to do....

RCZ

The thing is the computer reacts much faster and knows you're sliding before you even know it. It corrects the slide before the slide becomes a slide. If its too late, the ecu will apply throttle and brakes to control the slide as it detects which wheel has traction and which one doesn't. Traction control is way more complicated and advanced than most people know.. There is only SO much the computer can do though, if you get into an uncontrollable spin the computer will try to regain traction, however it is often futile. To answer your question of whether or not you get control again if the computer cant figure it out, the answer is no. If you decided to slam on the gas in the middle of your spin, the car won't let you. (not to mention that is a strategy best reserved for video games). Applying gas in that situation will only make things worst.

Ya, that is incorrect. It is actually the worst thing you can do. The moment you disengage the clutch you lose any ability to use the throttle to control the slide. Not to mention it is just as much of a shock to traction and balance as if you suddenly got off the throttle mid slide. Remember, all your inputs should lead to a smooth change in the overall dynamics of the car. If your car is doing very abrupt weight shifts either front and back or side to side, you aren't driving it right.

In high performance situations: When you press the gas you should be able to count from 1 to 5 at least in the process. Meaning the process of going from 0% to 100% throttle should take however long it takes you to say: one, two, three, four, five. When you press the brake you should be able to count from 3-6 in the process of going from 0% to 100% brake.

Similarly with turning, you should try to avoid turning abruptly in either direction. If you turn abruptly it will unsettle the car and often cause you to understeer (plow). Turn-in should always be smooth and controlled.

"But RCZ, when I watch anything from rally to timeattack to F1, the drivers are often flailing their hands around very abruptly! What gives!?"

Their inputs may be fast and abrupt, but if you ever see a shot from OUTSIDE the car, the car is moving very very smoothly. That is what matters. The weight transfers must be smooth and the movement of the car must be smooth. You may have to flail your hands around like a maniac at times, more so when you are driving race cars than street cars. (Think Karting if anyone has ever done it. Turn 1 at my local kart track is a flat out full speed right hander that leads into a very tight right hairpin. Sometimes I may have to catch not 1, but 5 or 6 slides in just that one corner. Hands flail, but the kart follows a smooth path. Yes I have also 720'd straight through the tirewall on the outside of the corner, but we won't talk about that). Again, be smooth and you will be faster and safer than everyone else.

Tying back to my original response; letting the clutch out/letting off the gas abruptly/braking = abrupt weight transfers = not good. The moment you lift off the gas it shifts the weight OFF the rear wheels and towards the fronts. I'm not going to get into the physics of friction and grip, but you can imagine that when there is less "weight" or force pushing down on the rear wheels, there is going to be less grip. Less grip = you're off the road.

Lastly, I should add that this logic applies also when you have FULL grip. If you are taking a fast sweeping corner and you let off the gas abruptly or tap the brakes, it will take weight off the rear tires and therefore you will loose grip and you will spin. You may have heard about this, it is referred to as "lift throttle oversteer" It is one of the most common major mistakes that rookies make on the track. If anyone remembers the pictures of the 997 GT2 I put up a while back, the one that crashed...guess what happened...yeah. Having the weight at the rear of the porsche helps grip until you lift and lose grip, then it becomes a pendulum.

Namir

First of all, RCZ was spot on throughout this thread, thanks for the in depth response. I now need to say nothing


Second, snow (if you have it) is a great time to practice controlling oversteer situations in a MUCH easier setting, using the same principles.
Tons of fun, especially if you are rocking AWD.


Third, weight transfer can be a bitch, don't lift in highspeed corners
unless you are in formula D and your name is Tanner Foust.

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chimZEE370

I'm confuse can we lose control just with normal driving (straight ,dry road ) or when go go fast on corners? What about going through gears fast straight line? You guys are scaring me is rwd that bad ?

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chubbs

It IS possible for the back end of a Z to break away when you're accelerating in a straight line. It's happened to me accidentally, and I've done it on purpose too, on quite a few occasions.

RCZ is right - the thing to do is get yourself plenty of off-road practice and make this sort of thing happen intentionally, so you know what to do if/when it DOES happen.

...because it WILL happen one day, unless you drive with granny boots on - and most of us don't. The last thing you want is for it to be a surprise.

Be safe.

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mattkim85

alright so does anyone know of any good racing schools in SOCAl?

CrownR426

ask the dmv

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Chupacabra

Opa-Locka??? Xtreme indoor is left turn into left hair pin, never been to the one in opa-locka.

anyways good info, never thought about the counting from 3-6 while breaking, i was taught to hit the pedal once hard enough not to lock, and then ease off and apply pressure repeatedly (essentially making a human ABS).

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RCZ

I havent tried xtreme yet, but Opa Locka is outdoors and it is an absolute blast. They have 8HP karts with rental non-race tires on now. That means if you dont know what youre doing..you are going to learn very very quickly. Lessons learned on the kart track are invaluable. I can almost guarantee you that Opa Locka is the best rental place around Miami. Open, fast, lots of passing opportunities and the track takes a while to perfect. I've been racing there for like 3 years and my friend for over 6. We are are usually within a tenth off each other. If you are around the area, I highly encourage you to come race with us.

!xoible -
1) Get a bunch of $1 dollar training "flat cones" at your local sport store's soccer section.
2)Wait for rain. (if not you will be going faster and it will be harder to break it lose. AND you will smoke your tires.)
3)Find a parking lot with enough space.
4) set up a "U" shaped turn or simply outline a circle with the cones.
5) Practice breaking lose the rear end and holding a slide through the cones. OR if you set up the circle, practice holding the slide around the circle as long as possible.

This is one of the activities when you go to driving school. They call it a "skid pad" and they soak it with water for you..which is very cool.

It will help you a crapton if you go with someone who knows what they are doing already. Eventually your brain will stop saying "freak out" and start saying "countersteer enjoy"