What!!!! No ashtray

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Well I for one don't want to be made "healthier" against my will. Oh and get your facts straight. It's a little publicized fact but smokers have lower total health care costs. The average age at which a smoker gets lung cancer is 72 and typically they don't live long enough to have long extended illnesses.

Why stop at cigarettes? Why not tax to extinction or outright outlaw all sorts of risky behavior -- hang gliding ... no way ..the nanny state says people having accidents hang gliding will raise premiums. Like fast cars ... sorry ...fast cars are dangerous. Like your whoppers -- you gotta be kidding ... saturated fat is a mega killer.

It's a slippery slope and it's inconsistent with the notion of individual responsibility for which this country is known.

If they are going to outlaw smoking because the non-smokers are getting annoyed at smelling a little smoke, then they should also outlaw wearing Axe body spray or old lady perfume in public places -- that crap is way more noxious smelling than a bit of stale tobacco smoke

Originally Posted by kannibul

Also, post your proof they have lower overall healthcare....

Unless you're considering the ones who die quickly after being diagnosed, if they're diagnosed...

*cough cough...must be gettin' a cold...draaaag*

:epicfacepalm:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

How about an article from the New England Journal of Medicine

NEJM -- The Health Care Costs of Smoking

"Conclusions If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs."

I'm just doing my part to save your tax dollars...

Originally Posted by dalparadise

In a convertible, the world is your ashtray.

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

lol....

Seriously ... please don't litter, wash your hands after going to the bathroom, and call your mother every once in a while

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

How about an article from the New England Journal of Medicine

NEJM -- The Health Care Costs of Smoking

"Conclusions If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs."

I'm just doing my part to save your tax dollars...

Originally Posted by kannibul

perhaps because people would be living longer...


Lets kill all the felons to save money on prison costs.

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

Some people might advocate that. Considering it costs about $60k a year per inmate. lol

Originally Posted by kannibul

perhaps because people would be living longer...


Lets kill all the felons to save money on prison costs...same logic, right? Less prisoners in prison, therefore it'll cost less!



Also, in the discussion part of the article, they are disclaiming a "related diseases" and the care involved in correcting those issues. They're just looking at people who smoke, vs people who don't smoke, where as smoke is the direct cause of the doctors visit.

That's like saying people who have HIV aren't sick, because AIDS is a side effect and shouldn't be counted, therefore HIV isn't bad.

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

I am not advocating any of that. I was simply responding to your unsubstantiated claim that smoking causes increased medical costs. I stated it doesn't and provided some evidence for my claim.

Originally Posted by kannibul

No offense, but the evidence you provided has a lot of holes in it.

Four words in a very related argument where both sides prop up articles that have more holes than the Ozone Layer:


Man Made Global Warming

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

At least I provided some evidence. You simply claimed something as true and haven't produced any evidence to back up your position. If you don't like that article here's another

How Much Does Smoking Cost Society?

From the article:

"Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.

It looks unpleasant or ghoulish to look at the cost savings as well as the cost increases and it's not a good thing that smoking kills people," Viscusi said in an interview. "But if you're going to follow this health-cost train all the way, you have to take into account all the effects, not just the ones you like in terms of getting your bill passed."