Nismo vs Sport ?

MaysEffect

I think this is the confusion. The GT4 uses cup2 tires, atleast here where i live. If the GT4 where you live comes with PSS, then i feel sorry for whoever buys it there lol. So it sounded like you were saying the pss tires is as good as the cup2 tires. And the other part about them being "mid level" race grade tires, which they are not, for whatever that means. They are very good street tires.

My original point was about how the nismo suspension can handle tires with higher traction limits. Such as an extreme or competition tires.

b15

That's debatable. Other than opinion, I haven't seen much data that supports the Nismo as a better handler/posts better track times. They're about equal for the most part. Yes the Nismo is firmer sprung, but that doesn't equate to better handling. Suspension aside, the Nismo does have additional chassis bracing which will help the car feel more solid.

MaysEffect

I'm not sure you read what i said correctly.

b15

I did. Explain how "it handle tires with higher traction limits". What exactly is so different about the suspension that enables this?

And for what it's worth, there's actually an Edmunds comparison that's been around forever showing the '09 Nismo posting worse times than an '09 Sport. Nismo is wears larger, better tires stock and we all know the RE050 on the sports are terrible.

MaysEffect

I already made my point on the first page, so i still don't think you understand what i said.

As for the comparison, nothing about the Nismo's tire package is better than the sport. They both use a 245 front, and this size actually suites the 9 inch wheel on the sport better, a 9.5 should have a 255 at minimum. The rear nismo is only a size bigger at 285 vs 275. Not a big difference at all. It's also proven the Bridgestone is better than the Yokahama, thus the reason almost every car company has ditched the advan for the Bridgestone Re050A or S001. The skidpad tests alone indicated the Yokahama's are nothing to brag about. The advan sport was replaced 3 times over since 2008. Where as the Re050A was only updated once. So for however terrible they are, the advan is worse, giving the Nismo very little performance advantage, if any. The current Nismo uses the S001, which is still categorically not the best in-class, but much improved compared to the old, worst in-class advan sport. For a standard summer tire setup, i'd agree the stock sport suspension will work the tires better. But the stiffer nismo suspension will yield a more stable balance with larger high grip tires.

b15

You did? Let see here....

Don't see your explanation on how the suspension is better set up to handle this.

Again, great explanation.

Cool, you read a lot on tirerack.

More tirerack facts and still no explanation why the nismo can handle sticker tires

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right?

MaysEffect

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this > Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further.

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

UNKNOWN_370

The body bracing allows it to endure more track time than the sport, it is more protected from body flex and has better Aero. It has 18HP to compensate for the 88lb deficit.

Other than a little bit of extra help in the endurance dept. And some dampers. They're the same car. They sell a nismo body brace kit for for the sport. I think it's $1,800. Don't quote me on price. I'm sure that'll make them equal.

The Z sport has big enough wheels for track duty, the nismo is a Lil extra for the cars size. PS4's are probably too much for the capability of either car. Those are designed for these 500+HP cars.

Jus sayin.

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Cranberry

AH!!! sorry man, I totally misunderstood too. I thought you were comparing apples to oranges. sorry about that

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