370 debate on Camaro board

[LiquidZ]

Originally Posted by Crash

You're forgetting a VERY important factor in this math: GEARING!

Just because you make the power/tq at the flywheel doesn't mean that you're getting all that to the ground.

The Camaro's final gear is a 3.45 (that's bigger than the non-SS trims which are 3.27). That being said, the Z has 3.64 (I believe) and that's going to increase the amount of torque to the ground for the Z over the Camaro.

Also, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears are on the 6-speed used in the Camaro SS are 3.01, 2.07, and 1.43 (respectively). The ratios will have a lot to do with first gear launching... Keep in mind that the Camaro - weighing in at 3900LBs - will need a very big first gear (like 4.0) to get off the line that fast.

Also, in the twisties, torque is actually a bad thing. They can talk about how the Camaro uses the G8 chassis, but we're still talking about a near 2 ton car with small tires that are likely garbage (since all GM OEM tires lately are garbage) and suspension that will be design for the 1/4 mile. I used to be a GM fanboy and I used to own F-bodies. But I know numbers well too. Fact is that (besides the build quality and crappy interior on the Camaro), the Z will be superior even if the Camaro DOES beat it in the 1/4. If the numbers are that close for the 1/4, than the Camaro doesn't stand a chance against the Z at the GT tracks.

In addition, it will DEFINITELY be a driver's race. I've raced for MANY years and can tell you that it usually comes down to the driver when the numbers are this close.

But for arguments sake, lets run the numbers: (EDITED: GOT THE Z's NUMBERS)

Camaro: 424tq * 3.45 * 3.01 = 4403.028 (First gear)

370z: 270 * 3.794 * 3.692 = 3782.01096 (First gear)

NOW do the math on tq/lbs:

Camaro: 1.13lbstq/1Lbs weight

370z: 1.18lbstq/1Lbs weight

The Z CLEARLY has more torque per pound. But the numbers are still very close and the Camaro has the benefit of a live axle vs. IRS. That being said, it is DEFINITELY a drivers race and will certainly come down to the wire with both cars.

I got my information from:
Nissan 370Z Official Specs Released from Nissan 11.15.08
AND
http://krang.superchevy.com/features...ifications.pdf <--- Assuming that these are correct.

Camaro has an IRS.

That aside, I do agree about the gearing. People never think about the gearing.

[Crash]

^^^ I also updated the numbers in my last post...

The Camaro finally got IRS!?!? That's lame. The live axle was WAY better for racing.

[Asheth]

Originally Posted by frost

That argument fools you into thinking it's good because it applies logical math, however, this argument assumes that handling is simply based on a power to weight ratio. Admittedly, that's an important aspect but it's not the only aspect. Suspension, balance, steering, reinforcements, length, width, aerodynamics, tire/rime size and etcetera all come into play.

Also, not to split hairs over 4 hp, but it was offically announced Friday that the camaro has 426hp with torque not being mentioned.

One last point as I beat this debate to death, as a former camaro/firebird owner, I can tell you that owning one of those does not put you in a the class of the Z cars. What I mean by that is, my camaro looked exactly the same as the one the trailer park people were driving, the moms trying to keep their youth, and the kids who cheese out those cars. Because of the Zs price-point, you're in a different class with a particular breed of people, and you generally don't have to worry about seeing the cholo with spinners on his Z sitting next to you at a light making your car look less classy.

I think the Z takes the practicality out of consideration. I would say that most but def not all buy American Muscle because it does come with the back seat. If you buy the Z its because thats what you want and you either have another car for passengers or you don't care about passengers lol.

I plan to get one cause I fall in both categories I don't care about passengers and I want one. I hate when my friends try to hop in my Spyder and I have a 2+2 I thought about the G37 but all that would be is one extra passenger cause nobody would get behind me. Though I do not mind the extra trunk space.

[Crash]

Same for me... I have no desire to transport people around. As far as I'm concerned, there is only me when I'm driving. Passengers will never be a consideration in my cars until I have a kid, which isn't for at least 4 years. And even then, I'll still have my "fun" car.

I won't buy another GM product. They're complete garbage when it comes to build quality and they make them poor quality on purpose so they can make more money on warranty work. To me, that's a backwards business model, and it only deter me from buying their cars.

[tvfreakazoid]

Originally Posted by Crash

^^^ I also updated the numbers in my last post...

The Camaro finally got IRS!?!? That's lame. The live axle was WAY better for racing.

What do you mean by IRS and live axle? Which one does the z has?:lezbun: