370 debate on Camaro board

tvfreakazoid · 01-11-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushing_Tin

I see the car is delayed, they are saying a one month delay, but I suspect it will be longer in reality. They also said that the SS (V8) model will take a lot longer to get to dealers due to the demand. Some people may not get the cars they ordered until next year. Glad I got my Z!

Congrats on your new Z. How much did you get it for? Where you able to negotiate and bring down on the price?

Asheth · 01-10-2009, 03:14 AM

According to that edmunds article the V6 is not even in the picture with most sport car V6's out there. 0-60 in 6.1 sec and 1/4 Mile in 14.1??

Slidefox · 01-10-2009, 03:35 PM

^^Welcome!

Pushing_Tin · 01-10-2009, 05:32 PM

Welcome SBG, I have been a member over there for a few months. I think it's great that the discussion had been very civil overall. Many times those type of threads degrade into a juvenille rant. I still am very interested in the Camaro and will definitely go check it out whenever it finally comes out.

frost · 01-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushing_Tin

I still am very interested in the Camaro and will definitely go check it out whenever it finally comes out.

We will be driving 390Zs by then!

I jest. The camaro is a good looking car ... from what I heave seen of pictures and sitting in a (now) 3 year old concept car.

FricFrac · 01-10-2009, 09:59 PM

It amazes me how blind many seem to be to the whole weight issue. 400+ lbs is a huge big deal on a car. It really affects how the car handles not just its power to weight ratio. Even the Z has been chastized about its weight - the GTR as well. Nissan did a fantastic job shaving weight off - unfortunately there was a lot of regulations (saftey first of course) that added most of that weight back on. I'd rather have the 100 lbs lighter car than another 10HP...

Its just a big bench racing thread anyhow - how can you compare results on a pre-production car. You can vastly affect numbers by just changing the tires. There will be no comparisons until the car is actually released....

Its nice to see the racing technology coming down to these cars. I mean the ZR1 is an amazing car as is the GTR - super cars within reach. Now the Z is hanging with the Cayman S and even the $250K DB9 is very close in performance. If the Camaro is in the same class that's pretty cool that auto technology has come so far.

....regardless there is some interesting commentary and generally speaking most ppl are respectful. Nice to see

Crash · 01-14-2009, 03:07 AM

Technically, although the Z doesn't produce as much Tq at the crank as the Camaro, it does produce MORE torque at the wheels per each pound the car weighs... That's where it WILL make a difference in the 1/4 mile. I'd put my money on the Z beating the Camaro!

I'm a really good 1/4 mile driver (since I used to street race a bit - wink wink) and I'll tell you that I'll likely make that car beat the Camaro. With an intake and tune, it will seal the deal.

Live Axel vs. IRS

IRS = Independent Rear Suspension
IRS is good for handling (depending on the car) when it comes to GT racing. However, you lose power and it's harder to put more power to the ground through this system.

Live Axle is when the rear suspension is not Left-Right independent. Every motion on one side (up, down, forward, and backwards) effects the other. However, this system is MUCH better for drag racing (1/4 mile type) because it's easier to put the power to the ground evenly through both rear tires. When the car "squats" back during a launch, the power is applied evenly.

Most cars that have the transmission in the rear (Corvettes, Porsches, Lotus, etc) will generally have IRS. Apparently up until the 5th generation of F-Bodies (Camaros, Firebirds) the F-body had a Live Axle making them very good for drag racing.

Auto Zed · 01-14-2009, 10:35 AM

im sure this has been said already but the camaro would probably have the z in a straight line drag but around the track or on the side of a mountain through the twists n turns (where it counts) the camaro would wobble and bobble like every other terrible american made car (sure a COUPLE are good but consider there are probably (pulling this number out of the air) some 60 american cars out there and only 2 are good

.. i know those figures are probably well off but whatever the case. the europeans and japanese own perfomance, quality and reliability in the car market respectively.

CrownR426 · 01-14-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auto Zed

im sure this has been said already but the camaro would probably have the z in a straight line drag but around the track or on the side of a mountain through the twists n turns (where it counts) the camaro would wobble and bobble like every other terrible american made car (sure a COUPLE are good but consider there are probably (pulling this number out of the air) some 60 american cars out there and only 2 are good

.. i know those figures are probably well off but whatever the case. the europeans and japanese own perfomance, quality and reliability in the car market respectively.

You are right on the dot!
But... We won't know until the actually comparison occurs, which im sure motor trend or some other magazine will do!
All I know is that either the camaro or z will start bragging.

Let's all be friends, even though I know who would win!

Crash · 01-14-2009, 02:03 PM

Honestly, I really DO think the Z will win in the 1/4... Power to weight and Tq to weight ratios are all in the Z's favor. Like I said, this will DEFINITELY be a driver's race.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be close no matter the outcome.

LiquidZ · 01-14-2009, 10:29 AM

I would also like to add that an IRS will give you a more comfortable ride.

Crash · 01-16-2009, 05:17 AM

Nope... Only 2 years of the SVTs (03 and 04) were made 6 speeds, not by choice, but by necessity. The 03-04 SVTs were built 4.6 liters with 390HP. The 5-speeds that were in the GTs would have exploded under that much power. So the "Special Vehicle's Team" had to put in T56 transmissions to handle the power. The same transmission that was already in all the 93+ Trans Ams and Camaros. LOL! However, the 03-04 SVTs are VERY respectable cars. As much as I'm not a fan of Mustang, those Cobra's are not to be messed with stock for stock. $500 of mods to those cars and they put down 480+RWHP!

It's true, Mustang owners are goo-goo over their ponies. I've talked to a few in our club and I think only one actually liked the new design of the 2010 stang. (Mostly because they don't like the back end.)

No, I haven't bought my 370 yet. I'll likely purchase it either next month or in March. I can't purchase it right this second. I don't even have time to get my current Z smogged and I haven't been able to get to the DMV to renew my License!

I figure I'll probably keep the 300z now as my beater and buy the 370z as my daily. Not sure. I don't drive that much at all since I work primarily from home. I'd LOVE to turn the 300z into an electric car.

Endgame · 01-16-2009, 06:40 AM

I have always thought that for the price, those 03-04 SVT Cobras would eat a new Camaro alive. Very close to the sam HP and torque, but about 300 pounds less weight; and it has an IRS! The Terminator!! I think that is how they referred to that Cobra.....

BMW Killa · 01-16-2009, 09:22 PM

Whatever their marketing strategy is, it seems to be working for them. By not catering to the fanboys, they are laughing all the way to the bank

Crash · 01-16-2009, 09:24 PM

^^^ Cheers!

01-10-2009, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Slidefox Previous Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,534 Drives: A Pony Rep Power: 215	^^Welcome! __________________ Forum Rules: Click Here Before Posting Click Here to Become a Premium Member Go Turbo or Go Home!!//Cowboys 2012 Superbowl Champs// Suns 2012 NBA Champions

01-14-2009, 03:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 591	Technically, although the Z doesn't produce as much Tq at the crank as the Camaro, it does produce MORE torque at the wheels per each pound the car weighs... That's where it WILL make a difference in the 1/4 mile. I'd put my money on the Z beating the Camaro! I'm a really good 1/4 mile driver (since I used to street race a bit - wink wink) and I'll tell you that I'll likely make that car beat the Camaro. With an intake and tune, it will seal the deal. Live Axel vs. IRS IRS = Independent Rear Suspension IRS is good for handling (depending on the car) when it comes to GT racing. However, you lose power and it's harder to put more power to the ground through this system. Live Axle is when the rear suspension is not Left-Right independent. Every motion on one side (up, down, forward, and backwards) effects the other. However, this system is MUCH better for drag racing (1/4 mile type) because it's easier to put the power to the ground evenly through both rear tires. When the car "squats" back during a launch, the power is applied evenly. Most cars that have the transmission in the rear (Corvettes, Porsches, Lotus, etc) will generally have IRS. Apparently up until the 5th generation of F-Bodies (Camaros, Firebirds) the F-body had a Live Axle making them very good for drag racing. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-14-2009, 02:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 591	Honestly, I really DO think the Z will win in the 1/4... Power to weight and Tq to weight ratios are all in the Z's favor. Like I said, this will DEFINITELY be a driver's race. One thing's for sure, it's going to be close no matter the outcome. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-16-2009, 05:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 591	Nope... Only 2 years of the SVTs (03 and 04) were made 6 speeds, not by choice, but by necessity. The 03-04 SVTs were built 4.6 liters with 390HP. The 5-speeds that were in the GTs would have exploded under that much power. So the "Special Vehicle's Team" had to put in T56 transmissions to handle the power. The same transmission that was already in all the 93+ Trans Ams and Camaros. LOL! However, the 03-04 SVTs are VERY respectable cars. As much as I'm not a fan of Mustang, those Cobra's are not to be messed with stock for stock. $500 of mods to those cars and they put down 480+RWHP! It's true, Mustang owners are goo-goo over their ponies. I've talked to a few in our club and I think only one actually liked the new design of the 2010 stang. (Mostly because they don't like the back end.) No, I haven't bought my 370 yet. I'll likely purchase it either next month or in March. I can't purchase it right this second. I don't even have time to get my current Z smogged and I haven't been able to get to the DMV to renew my License! I figure I'll probably keep the 300z now as my beater and buy the 370z as my daily. Not sure. I don't drive that much at all since I work primarily from home. I'd LOVE to turn the 300z into an electric car. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-16-2009, 09:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 591	^^^ Cheers! __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-10-2009, 03:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
Asheth Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 917 Drives: 09 Blk 6mt Rep Power: 19	According to that edmunds article the V6 is not even in the picture with most sport car V6's out there. 0-60 in 6.1 sec and 1/4 Mile in 14.1??

01-10-2009, 05:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 229	Welcome SBG, I have been a member over there for a few months. I think it's great that the discussion had been very civil overall. Many times those type of threads degrade into a juvenille rant. I still am very interested in the Camaro and will definitely go check it out whenever it finally comes out.

01-10-2009, 09:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 230	It amazes me how blind many seem to be to the whole weight issue. 400+ lbs is a huge big deal on a car. It really affects how the car handles not just its power to weight ratio. Even the Z has been chastized about its weight - the GTR as well. Nissan did a fantastic job shaving weight off - unfortunately there was a lot of regulations (saftey first of course) that added most of that weight back on. I'd rather have the 100 lbs lighter car than another 10HP... Its just a big bench racing thread anyhow - how can you compare results on a pre-production car. You can vastly affect numbers by just changing the tires. There will be no comparisons until the car is actually released.... Its nice to see the racing technology coming down to these cars. I mean the ZR1 is an amazing car as is the GTR - super cars within reach. Now the Z is hanging with the Cayman S and even the $250K DB9 is very close in performance. If the Camaro is in the same class that's pretty cool that auto technology has come so far. ....regardless there is some interesting commentary and generally speaking most ppl are respectful. Nice to see

01-14-2009, 10:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
Auto Zed Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Null Posts: 6 Drives: Null Rep Power: 300	im sure this has been said already but the camaro would probably have the z in a straight line drag but around the track or on the side of a mountain through the twists n turns (where it counts) the camaro would wobble and bobble like every other terrible american made car (sure a COUPLE are good but consider there are probably (pulling this number out of the air) some 60 american cars out there and only 2 are good .. i know those figures are probably well off but whatever the case. the europeans and japanese own perfomance, quality and reliability in the car market respectively.

01-14-2009, 10:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
LiquidZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,940 Drives: Mag. Black 2009 370Z Rep Power: 706	I would also like to add that an IRS will give you a more comfortable ride.

01-16-2009, 06:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Endgame A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,613 Drives: Nothing Now! Rep Power: 225	I have always thought that for the price, those 03-04 SVT Cobras would eat a new Camaro alive. Very close to the sam HP and torque, but about 300 pounds less weight; and it has an IRS! The Terminator!! I think that is how they referred to that Cobra.....

01-16-2009, 09:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
BMW Killa Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: FL Posts: 287 Drives: neezmo Rep Power: 190	Whatever their marketing strategy is, it seems to be working for them. By not catering to the fanboys, they are laughing all the way to the bank

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