TravisJB Journal

travisjb · 01-25-2010, 12:19 PM

hard to argue with that logic, thanks

mcheddadi · 01-27-2010, 01:38 AM

damn, more pics!!

Fathead · 01-28-2010, 09:04 AM

not for canadins!

travisjb · 01-28-2010, 10:06 PM

a couple random posts

I found a really great article on brake compound selection for those of you that might be interested... Essex - Learning Center - How to Choose the Best Street and Track Brake Pads

also, here's an interesting debate on another forum I occasionally post on about whether the accumulation of tires on a track have a positive or negative effect on traction... Drifter Rubber--Help or Hurt? - NASA AZ

m4a1mustang · 01-28-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

a couple random posts

I found a really great article on brake compound selection for those of you that might be interested... Essex - Learning Center - How to Choose the Best Street and Track Brake Pads

also, here's an interesting debate on another forum I occasionally post on about whether the accumulation of tires on a track have a positive or negative effect on traction... Drifter Rubber--Help or Hurt? - NASA AZ

Good stuff.

The rubber debate is a pretty easy one. Take NASCAR for example... If the track is clear Friday and Saturday and gets rubbered in, but a rainstorm swings by Sunday morning before the race, the track is going to have lost a ton of grip.

In F1... think of how Monaco gets faster as the weekend progresses.

travisjb · 02-03-2010, 10:07 PM

regarding the rubber on track debate... i'm not convinced it is that easy... a certain amount of rubber buildup is good but if there is enough that it fills the aggregate, then you lose 'microtexture'... that is a common cause of long landings and problems on airport runways - where crews have to go out and clean out the rubber from landing zones... the same argument is being made (on the thread I linked) from the excessive deposits left by drifters, just before a TT run or whatever...

m4a1mustang · 02-03-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

regarding the rubber on track debate... i'm not convinced it is that easy... a certain amount of rubber buildup is good but if there is enough that it fills the aggregate, then you lose 'microtexture'... that is a common cause of long landings and problems on airport runways - where crews have to go out and clean out the rubber from landing zones... the same argument is being made (on the thread I linked) from the excessive deposits left by drifters, just before a TT run or whatever...

A lot of it depends on the surface.

On concrete tracks the rubber can build up moreso than on asphalt tracks and develop grooves that screw things up.

But for the most part once the track has fully "rubbered in" the excess rubber just marbles up at the top of the track outside of the groove.

travisjb · 02-03-2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

A lot of it depends on the surface.

On concrete tracks the rubber can build up moreso than on asphalt tracks and develop grooves that screw things up.

But for the most part once the track has fully "rubbered in" the excess rubber just marbles up at the top of the track outside of the groove.

good point! at my usual local track, we have concrete mixed with asphalt... the effects and timing of buildup are very different depending on which part you hit

travisjb · 02-03-2010, 10:10 PM

So, I'm going with Ferrodo DS3000 front and rear... going to try these out and see how they perform at an event coming up soon

Stillen is also providing me with temp sensing paint... three compounds that change color at different temps, should indicate temp thresholds at different parts of the braking mechanism... should help us trace down where the heat problems are too! I look forward to getting the results... will make an effort to document with pics between runs

m4a1mustang · 02-03-2010, 10:14 PM

That temp paint is cool.

travisjb · 02-03-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3...ville20mar.jpg

Here's actually a good shot showing the groove mostly built up on a concrete track... you can even see the darker areas where it's built up more at the seams... and of course the marbles up out of the groove.

In most of the NASCAR races it takes roughly the first 100 miles of the race for the track to fully rubber in... from there it's pretty stable assuming atmospheric conditions remain the same (they never do.)

cool pic, thanks for sharing

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

That temp paint is cool.

yeah, it should give us all helpful data... i'll be sure to share results on my AP Racing BBK install thread

Here are comments on these pads from another forum:

...... Rating = 9
...... cf = 0.62
...... In every way, an outstanding track pad, and the high cf results in a very firm pedal. Though cold friction is also excellent, don't ever think about using this pad on the street. When cold, I've never heard any pad squeal louder; it's borderline painful. Because the iron content of this compound is >50%, the brake dust is more-or-less corrosive to aluminum wheels (without a clearcoat) and can quickly stain them badly. Even when using these pads only on track, wipe your wheels clean every evening.

ChrisSlicks · 02-04-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

So, I'm going with Ferrodo DS3000 front and rear... going to try these out and see how they perform at an event coming up soon

Stillen is also providing me with temp sensing paint... three compounds that change color at different temps, should indicate temp thresholds at different parts of the braking mechanism... should help us trace down where the heat problems are too! I look forward to getting the results... will make an effort to document with pics between runs

Yeah I've got to get some of that too, was looking at it last night. I also found some temp gauge stickers you can place on the calipers that give you a fairly accurate reading of where they are at given that they aren't going to cool off very fast.

I think the DS3000's are a good choice, was looking at the DS3000 Endurance for their slightly lower aggressiveness as I prefer around a 0.5.

Zless@arizona · 02-04-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Stillen is providing me temp sensing paint: three compounds that change color at different temps; should indicate temp thresholds at different parts of the braking mechanism; should help trace the locaton of heat problems.

Elegant/simple solution to my more complicated/expensive suggestion many months ago. I'm glad you found the Stillen answer! I am so dinosaur! Live and learn. I am looking forward to the reactive-paint results! Vive #104!

Josh@STILLEN · 02-04-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zless@arizona

Elegant/simple solution to my more complicated/expensive suggestion many months ago. I'm glad you found the Stillen answer! I am so dinosaur! Live and learn. I am looking forward to the reactive-paint results! Vive #104!

Actually.. that's probably our fault for not doing enough in the education department outward, and letting you guys know what options are available, and the proper way to work with tracks, pads, goals, setups, etc.

Added them to the website today, including the caliper temperature strips..

Hopefully Travis will give you guys a good rundown as he's testing some pads, utilizing some of the cool things available to help with pad/track decisions, etc.

STILLEN : AP Racing Rotor Temperature Paint Kit & Caliper Indicator Strips

Thanks Travis..

travisjb · 02-03-2010, 10:13 PM

friction chart for this compound...

01-25-2010, 12:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	hard to argue with that logic, thanks __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

01-28-2010, 10:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	a couple random posts I found a really great article on brake compound selection for those of you that might be interested... Essex - Learning Center - How to Choose the Best Street and Track Brake Pads also, here's an interesting debate on another forum I occasionally post on about whether the accumulation of tires on a track have a positive or negative effect on traction... Drifter Rubber--Help or Hurt? - NASA AZ __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

02-03-2010, 10:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	regarding the rubber on track debate... i'm not convinced it is that easy... a certain amount of rubber buildup is good but if there is enough that it fills the aggregate, then you lose 'microtexture'... that is a common cause of long landings and problems on airport runways - where crews have to go out and clean out the rubber from landing zones... the same argument is being made (on the thread I linked) from the excessive deposits left by drifters, just before a TT run or whatever... __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

02-03-2010, 10:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	So, I'm going with Ferrodo DS3000 front and rear... going to try these out and see how they perform at an event coming up soon Stillen is also providing me with temp sensing paint... three compounds that change color at different temps, should indicate temp thresholds at different parts of the braking mechanism... should help us trace down where the heat problems are too! I look forward to getting the results... will make an effort to document with pics between runs __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

02-03-2010, 10:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6964	That temp paint is cool. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

01-27-2010, 01:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
mcheddadi Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: canada Posts: 31 Drives: 08 altima coupe 3.5 Rep Power: 18	damn, more pics!!

01-28-2010, 09:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fathead Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 62 Drives: Chevy Trucks Rep Power: 17	not for canadins!

02-03-2010, 10:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	friction chart for this compound... __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

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