Oh and sorry, if I'm OT by referencing PCs!

I had both Xbox and PS3 pretty much until the Sony got hacked, and I then just stuck with xbl because of the livelier online presence.

Tapatalk ...

GPU limitations. It sounds to me like you had a more capable system and were freeing up some of the power.

Ah, yep. Apples and oranges.

Back on topic. The massive server farm for hosting I think pretty much seals the deal for me since all I do is fps online. I think its time to take my xbox360 to get credit towards a pre-order.

Tapatalk ...

If you can swing it I would keep my Xbox 360 for playing older games. I have some favorites I like to play that will make me keep mine for a while anyway.

Yeah, Windows has issues because of being popular, but nothing like they used to. They've made changes to their processes internally which has really helped. But it's still a huge codebase and attackers continue to get better with finding things like buffer overflows in various components. Plus the addition of various silly features to stuff that doesn't help the complexity (TCP/IP, SMB in recent years).


Also, having *accounts* hacked is one thing, and is sometimes user error/weakness. Having your entire network hacked to a degree that you have to take down your entire product for near a week? That's an endemic/inherent problem with your security.


Anyway, no need to belobor that vein of the topic. :)

You were being to narrow minded about the cloud processing power. I did not go more into detail with the response to why because SS_Firehawk answered it before I did a few posts down from your original message. Think outside the box brother!

I also agreed with you on the 5Tflops of power that may be stretching it, but again it is a theoretical number. At the same time these systems are being tested and cloud computing is nothing new. How Microsoft plans to implement it is, and people are just not understanding and/or letting it go in one ear and out the other. Games like Titanfall are already using the technology with great success.

Sony internet is still free, Playstation plus, which you pay $50 for will pay itself off the first free game you download. And theres dozens of free hot games to choose from.

It won't be on the PS4 and I think they said in November they would start charging for online access

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Finally! I found the perfect article to clear up some things on the 4k resolution. In a nut shell both systems will be able to output 4k video, gaming is a VERY far fetch. At most it will be by up-scaling the video and FPS would suffer greatly. At first sony was not even talking much about 4k video support. They finally announced it would. Out of the two systems they would be my best bet at 4k gaming due to the power of the system.

Well Sony has said in no way, shape, or form, will gaming be supported in 4k. So that pretty much eliminates Microsoft as well, regardless of what they say.

Here is the link for any Tech Geeks it is two pages long but clearly explains everything.
Xbox One vs PS4 4k Support

I looked it up. The PS3 will continue to be free and the PS4 will charge $5 a month based on having to make up for the costs of the features that will be available in the system.

I didn't look at the article at all but will the new consoles even do 1080p in all the games? I believe most current gen console games do 1080i and if you're lucky they'd do 720p? It's a shame they aren't making the hardware beefy enough to truly support 4K, the TVs will be affordable well before the 10 year console life cycle. what ever happened to planning for the future?

Consoles are strong enough for 1080P gaming @ 30fps. 60fps, it really depends on resources. PC gaming is a good indicator of what hardware can and can't handle, but at that same note, optimization will be improved on consoles and should see better performance with equal hardware. The big thing I see is optimizing memory usage. As new ways to implement AA, anisotropic filtering, shadow effects, lighting effects, and complexity of the game, it will become a limiting factor. 2gb is considered the recommendation now for 1080P and just a couple years ago 1gb was enough. Both Sony and MS had more powerful hardware available to them but the cost per unit could get astronomical. Most PC users know if you want to play @ 1080p at the highest fidelity settings, $1500 is a solid figure to estimate total cost of a well rounded system. Subtract SSD's, reduce HDD drive size, reduce enclosure costs, embed and integrate cooling, and remove OS costs, the under $500 total is still very far away. Integrating cpu and gpu into a single APU reduces costs, improves efficiency, reduces total material usage, and reduces power usage, but limits complexity of both cpu and gpu due to the packaging. It's still 28nm and putting too much hardware on a single APU will turn it into a smoldering oven too difficult to cool. Not only that, but increased complexity also means lower yields and higher costs due to unusable silicon.

Simply put: Yes both MS and Sony have the ability to bring something out that can have all these standards, but it will limit their market because very few people will want to spend $1,000+ on a console with features that are unusable for the next 4-5 years or for the 1% that can actually afford 4k TV's and GTX Titans for console GPU's. It's just not going to happen. Mommy and Daddy don't think Johnny needs a $$$ device to play video games. And everyone knows the Dads that do understand what I just said have a monster rig in their man cave already.

nicely put SS!

So with the topic of "next gen" gaming systems.
Thoughts on the outliers in the market. OUYA and future Android (and possibly iOS) gaming devices. Not exactly 1080P or 4K resolution, but many indie developers are sliding over to the systems.

Don't forget about the SteamBox

There are some things in the Ouya that I like. But the problem comes back to a platform that is still essentially fully of flash-based games, or the equivalent. I'm not sure that will last, kinda like the flash-based games segment anyway (see Zynga). The demo requirement is nice, at least, so I can tell if I'm getting a deep game or a shallow game.

I'm not sure I'd say there is an upswell in indie dev there, just like I wouldn't say it of the Apple store. It's just a different place with a different set of developers than I typically like. It doesn't help that the default, expected controls for Android/Apple are touch-based, whereas I want a controller. At least the Ouya is starting out with the correct input. :)

That said, there are of course outliers. There will be deep, solid games, and developers who do this for the love and not necessarily the large profit, so they can sell a cheap game to few people but put love and time into it to make it worthy.

I've been on a wait-and-see approach with the Ouya ever since I saw the Kickstarter go up. A coworker bought in, but I basically went with the $1 support. So far, glad I waited, since it's been a mess. But that should be expected with brand new platforms.

Yay. The Ouya. When you really want to play iPhone games from your console. Now, the steam console sounds much more interesting since they've already got such a great library of games.

The OUYA launch has been riddled with issues, but it is a new company attempting to develop something "different."
I was tempted to jump in for the $150 day 1 price, but as more info came to light it seemed less & less ideal. The steam box I need to research more, but having the catalog they have & the level of experience will be a huge plus for them.

Yeah, if the Ouya can continue to survive, the experience will really help them. Especially as they fix issues like with their somewhat awful controller. They have a userbase and development happening; but it's a ball that once it starts to slow down, will kill itself. They'll do well to pay for some content developers for a while. There's a reason all gaming consoles have either exclusives or first party titles.

:iagree:

Sorry I thought that is what I had been saying. I guess I should of stated the PS4. That bothers me a little though. Are you saying the PS3 users can still play games for free online? If that is the case it sounds like part of the cost for the PS4 will be to cover PS3 online gaming. That’s stretching the network dollars big time.

The OUYA does not do much for me. I will probably get one though and never use it (just like the Wii) unless guests are over. I hope the indie market will keep it strong though. This is the outlet I would like to see the indie developers grow on, to then bring better games to the bigger brother consoles.

Yup, consider yourself bothered. The PS3 online gaming will continue to be free while PS4 will cost $60 a year..
I'm not going to get upset based on we still don't know all the capabilities of the PS4. PS is keeping a lot of info hush. I'm sure there will be incentive to join PS plus once all features are revealed.

where'd you hear it'd be $60 a year?

Playstation plus is something you can purchase now. Its $5 a month or $50 a year. My bad. i meant to write $50. I don't know if it will increase. I did read $5 a month though.

I got wrapped up in the idea and got in on the kickstarter for towards the end of it. I was one of the last people to get their console (barely had it for a month). Luckily they were able to work the manufacturing bugs out so my controllers don't suffer from any of the sticking button issues.

In the month or so I've had it, I've only played it 2-3 times. Now that's mostly because I just moved into a new place right after I got it, I've only turned on my 360 once.

It's a nice idea and it's a pretty fun time killer, but they desperately need to get developers on board and start making some games. I thought I was going to have access to all the games I had purchased on my phone (GTA3, Need for Speed, etc) but was sorely mistaken. That being said I have found several fun games and lost track of time playing them.

My biggest gripe is the free to try thing. I get that you just give away games for free and expect developers to jump on board, but there's very few things more annoying in a video game than getting through level 3 and being redirected to a "Buy the full version to continue" screen.

I hate freemium.
I would rather have a free to try (full version) but you are only able to play for 10-20 minutes and then decide, so you can get past the first few levels and try it. On this list also includes the free games that let you play forever but unless you buy add ons or feature packs you are not going very far.

Actually with the discounts you get on games and free perks, it's not too bad at $5 a month. They run special sales often where you can get a 2-3 year old game completely free (borderlands, Resident Evil 5 were among those from past years).

Last I checked there were 12 months in a year. :icon17: You were correct the first time if it is 5 bucks a month. :tiphat:

This is part of my major gripe and why I said some of the things I did in previous posts. I do not want these style games on my Xbox or Playstation!

yeah but if you pay the year upfront, i they discount you $10. Hopefully they'll do the same for PS4.

UPDATE
It's $20 a year for a playstation network card. That's what the PS3 gets free and will keep getting for free. Then it's $50 a year for a playstation plus card. So you will have to pay $20 ANNUALLY for internet access. And another $50 a year if you want the full plus experience.

So in one way, you can be a little happier in the sense online access is not $5 a month but $20 a year. But it's still upsetting because it's free in the PS3, why pay on the 4? Also to get the fullest experience from playstation. It will total out to $70 annually.

Me, im not angry but the news isn't welcoming either. :(

Oh I didnt know about the discount thanks for clearing that up. AT least you are getting a few free games :ugh2:

I found this information and was excited at first, but the more I read, the more questions I have. Maybe some of you can help me figure it out.

Microsoft is taking advanced measures to prevent cheating on the Xbox One network. With these measures the game experience for decent players will be improved.

In an interview with OXM (Official Xbox Magazine), Mike Lavin, senior product manager at Microsoft states that the new reputation-system together with the cloud, will greatly enhance the game experience for players who play by the book.

The reputationsystem of the Xbone, that is taking over from the five-star system that is used on the Xbox 360, gives Microsoft the opportunity to localize players who don’t behave properly. “If a small percentage of our gaming population is making the gaming experience of other gamers terrible, then we should be able to track those players”

Lavin explains that Microsoft hopes that more players will play online and communicate with strangers. This requires a community with decent people, and not people who scream and yell all the time.

The new reputation will link people who behave badly to people who also behave badly. The same goes for people who behave properly, those people will be linked to decently behaving people.

Does anyone have expierence with this kind of system or know more about it?

What is to keep a group of friends or even a lobby from all giving bad feedback to a player for being really good at the game? Or a young kid....I have been in lobbys where a young kid just tries to say hi, and everyone starts being rude to them, just because they are a kid.

How will they monitor these ratings or feedback scores? I do not see how it is possible for it to be fair. I would hate to end up playing with true jerks just because I owned a lobby in COD for a few games.

I dunno I see alot of abuse coming from this system.

I'll definitely (eventually) get PS4.

My only concern, so to speak, is that I haven't seen anything yet that makes the PS4 really seem like a giant leap forward (compare PS1 to PS2 and PS2 to PS3 -- HUGE improvements in graphics).

So far, PS4 games look pretty PS3ish to me. I'd need to see something truly amazing to have me really excited about it, as opposed to feeling tepid about it and dreading the price.

I won't be buying it at launch, that's for sure. I'll wait until there's at least one game I am hell bent to get -- nothing listed for launch really does it for me.

Myself. I'll be getting both sytems after a few months of the release. I have no issues waiting as I am expecting, like everything else, that there will be some issues with first batch and mass release. One game I can't wait to play is the new Metal Gear

First...I can see the jokes coming:
Xbone ->:bowrofl:

Second, if they run the rep correctly, they can work out these random anomalies. Meaning if an entire room puts negative rep on one person that gets flagged, or a similar group that always plays together down votes anyone on their team that is not a 'normal.' They can track that information also and pull it into the equation to help control this from happening.

too lazy to read back 19 pages

can someone give me a summary so far and pros/cons of each?

In my opinion it's an even fight. I'm personally going to wait a year or so and see what people say after they've had their hands on the consoles.

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I agree. I think it'll ultimately come down to exclusive games and online experience/performance. Say what you want about the franchise, but I'm buying a Xbox One because of Halo, especially since Destiny is going to come out for both consoles. The extra features are a just bonus that truth be told, I probably wont even take advantage of that much.

I have no doubt that I'll end up buying a PS4 as well, because they have exclusive games I want to play too, but it'll probably be after it comes down in price a bit.

There's links to latest info on each and comparisons on first page of thread

I totally agree! I have seen nothing that is totally ground breaking and they have had 10 YEARS to develop these systems. I would love to see some new technology in the systems, even if it drives up the cost. At least give us the option for better models..

Options I would like to see...

-SSD Hard Drive (I am replacing the HD with a SSD on day one)
-4K Res for Gaming (PS4 only has it for video/picture viewing. This is obviously not a big deal now.)
-3rd party software allowed (XBMC would be sick!)
-Multi Display Support (Want to play GT and Forza over three monitors in my cockpit)

I would agree it would be great to have the most up to date tech, but also remember that most of this tech is just computer hardware. It is rebuilt to run their games, OS, etc at an optimized level and cheap to mass produce. Also, most of the hardware is picked 3 years in advance and begins testing.