Crowbar, baseball bat, wrench?

Chuck33079 · 05-15-2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

It sounds wrong because it's not right. Unfortunately, that's how it's being treated. I have read several horror stories about a home owner with a CHL in Texas being robbed, killing the intruder, and then being put on trial for murder. In a very similar situation, a home owner without a CHL is generally not hassled, because they supposedly, "don't know any better". It's a fvcked up situation that punishes responsible gun owners

Eh, I'd need to read the specific cases to see if there's more to it than that. I'm not saying you're wrong, but things here don't add up. It's been a year or so since my last renewal, so I'd have to dig up the handy little book of laws they give you. As far as someone getting away with something due to "not knowing any better" I think there's got to be more to the defense than that. Ignorance of the law has almost never been a successful defense from prosecution.

JARblue · 05-15-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Eh, I'd need to read the specific cases to see if there's more to it than that. I'm not saying you're wrong, but things here don't add up. It's been a year or so since my last renewal, so I'd have to dig up the handy little book of laws they give you. As far as someone getting away with something due to "not knowing any better" I think there's got to be more to the defense than that. Ignorance of the law has almost never been a successful defense from prosecution.

Yeah, I wish I knew a specific case I could refer you to - I get a lot of information first hand from a friend who is active in gun legislation. And it's not that you get away with something because of ignorance of the law. It's that they hold the CHL holders to a higher standard, which makes it more likely for them to be hassled. Most of the people being put on trial for murder aren't being convicted. But the fact remains that they are hassling CHL holders more than non-CHL holders in situations like these.

Knowing what I know, my aim will almost always be for the knee caps, unless they are strapped as well or have other means with which to attack me even if I go for the knees.

Chuck33079 · 05-15-2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Yeah, I wish I knew a specific case I could refer you to - I get a lot of information first hand from a friend who is active in gun legislation. And it's not that you get away with something because of ignorance of the law. It's that they hold the CHL holders to a higher standard, which makes it more likely for them to be hassled. Most of the people being put on trial for murder aren't being convicted. But the fact remains that they are hassling CHL holders more than non-CHL holders in situations like these.

Knowing what I know, my aim will almost always be for the knee caps, unless they are strapped as well or have other means with which to attack me even if I go for the knees.

Can you ask him for specific cases for me? I'd love to know what happened in those cases that warranted charges vs. the majority of cases where the person defending themselves (chl or no) had no significant legal repurcussions.

I'd wager that the number of people facing prosecution in cases like these is very low compared to the number of incidents. In addition, I'll go out on a limb and say that there were probably other factors involved in the DAs choice to charge someone. If it's a questionable shoot, you may get to discuss it with a jury of your peers. Still better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. DAs in Texas do not routinely bring charges against people who use lethal force for self defense. Hell, we let Joe Horn off.

If you shoot for kneecaps, you will most likely end up being prosecuted. Lethal force is allowed in situations in which you have a reasonable fear for your life. If you shoot for knees, the prosecutor will attempt to show that you obviously didn't have that reasonable fear, since you shot to wound. Often that will end badly for you. Shoot center of mass or not at all.

Do you have a CHL? If you get good a good instructor, you will spend a lot of the class on legalities relating to lethal force.

JARblue · 05-15-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Can you ask him for specific cases for me? I'd love to know what happened in those cases that warranted charges vs. the majority of cases where the person defending themselves (chl or no) had no significant legal repurcussions.

I'd wager that the number of people facing prosecution in cases like these is very low compared to the number of incidents. In addition, I'll go out on a limb and say that there were probably other factors involved in the DAs choice to charge someone. If it's a questionable shoot, you may get to discuss it with a jury of your peers. Still better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. DAs in Texas do not routinely bring charges against people who use lethal force for self defense. Hell, we let Joe Horn off.

If you shoot for kneecaps, you will most likely end up being prosecuted. Lethal force is allowed in situations in which you have a reasonable fear for your life. If you shoot for knees, the prosecutor will attempt to show that you obviously didn't have that reasonable fear, since you shot to wound. Often that will end badly for you. Shoot center of mass or not at all.

Do you have a CHL? If you get good a good instructor, you will spend a lot of the class on legalities relating to lethal force.

I will ask him

From what I can remember, nearly everyone does a jury trial and gets off. Yeah, the most surprising thing about these cases is the fact that a DA brought charges in the first place; makes it even more surprising that charges were even brought when the defendant gets acquitted.

My reason for shooting at the knee caps is purely for a worst-case scenario because I cannot be charged for more serious crimes like murder or attempted murder if I shoot below the waist. I'd like to think I wouldn't hesitate to aim differently if I felt like my life was in imminent danger.

I have taken the class and done all the proficiency tests because a construction superintendent I used to work for teaches the class. However, I never submitted an application to the State of Texas; he let me participate in the class for free, which is the main reason I did it. I don't really have a need to carry - as long as I can carry legally in my home and car if I want, that's all I care about.

PM me if you have any more questions. I'll try to PM you with a related case you can look into further

Btw, apologies for the OP for jacking the thread.

blackcherry20 · 05-15-2013, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Yeah, I wish I knew a specific case I could refer you to - I get a lot of information first hand from a friend who is active in gun legislation. And it's not that you get away with something because of ignorance of the law. It's that they hold the CHL holders to a higher standard, which makes it more likely for them to be hassled. Most of the people being put on trial for murder aren't being convicted. But the fact remains that they are hassling CHL holders more than non-CHL holders in situations like these.

Knowing what I know, my aim will almost always be for the knee caps, unless they are strapped as well or have other means with which to attack me even if I go for the knees.

Not me. Only one story if I'm involved. Mine.

JARblue · 05-15-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackcherry20

Not me. Only one story if I'm involved. Mine.

I still don't trust the system enough to risk it... only if my life is at risk

blackcherry20 · 05-15-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

I still don't trust the system enough to risk it... only if my life is at risk

Absolutely. That goes without saying.

SouthArk370Z · 05-15-2013, 07:47 PM

The way I figure it, if someone is willing to break into my house they are willing to kill/hurt me. Ie, my life is in imminent danger.

Outside the house, every situation is different and has to be judged on the evidence at hand.

Chuck33079 · 05-15-2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

The way I figure it, if someone is willing to break into my house they are willing to kill/hurt me. Ie, my life is in imminent danger.

Exactly. God bless the "castle doctrine".

05-15-2013, 07:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
SouthArk370Z Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,435 Drives: 2014 Challenger Rep Power: 324199	The way I figure it, if someone is willing to break into my house they are willing to kill/hurt me. Ie, my life is in imminent danger. Outside the house, every situation is different and has to be judged on the evidence at hand. 370Zsteve likes this. __________________ Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

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