Anyone here into firearms?

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I love my Noveske M4's, but I have shot enough stuff to know that 7.62x39 tears "stuff" up, does way better on automobiles, and is much better at punching cover---at least when using cheap FMJ.

Anyway, I feel that while my Noveske rifles are VERY reliable (because I run them hard and they work just fine, clean, dirty, whatever), I think that while the envelope I run them in, they are okay with, the AK-47 would allow me to expand that envelope further. Not that I would, but then, using a firearm in self-defense is not about clear-cut, neat and tidy envelopes of performance. I might very well trip and fall into a puddle of muck and then need my firearm to drop a vicious dog or something on my property. Who knows? AK covers more of that.

I am expecting 1-3MOA out of these rifles. They are Bulgarian milled receiver guns, made in Bulgaria, except for a few trigger-group components, and the furniture, at Arsenal of Bulgaria, and they make good AK's. These are not the US finished receivers, they were made and milled in Bulgaria. If I get better than 3 MOA, I will be happy.

I also bought 2 US PALM Battlegrips for them, and Jim Fuller sights. I am waiting for the AK Battlecomp to be in stock, or for more reviews on the Manticore Nightbrake.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Yeah, you need to own both... AK and AR, both do the job well. I would really like an AK-74M. 5.45 is just a ridiculous good and accurate round.

Side Note. I just paid $35 for (2) 6.8 mags brand new. It feels good paying normal prices in this market.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I feel like a 5.45 AK would be too much overlap with my M4 platforms. Worse round, imo.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

but so cheap to shoot

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I feel like a 5.45 AK would be too much overlap with my M4 platforms. Worse round, imo.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Ballistic tests show a slightly different story, but not by a huge margin. Both are equally respected. The modularity of the M4 though will suffice the mild deficit. I wouldn't own one to replace an M4. Just for historical value and cheap ammo fun .

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I have yet to see an equivalent to the 5.56 Brown Tip SOCOM round in 5.45 caliber.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

You're pulling out EXPENSIVE specialized ammo. I'm talking about the equiv ammo. i'm sure if our ammo makers took the time to invest in russian ammo. we can most definitely exceed your example. Some private reloaders do some amazing things with AK rounds. AR have more options sure, but basic 5.45 ammo can perform better in some cases than SOME of the specialized AR ammo. @ $10 a box. I can definitely put faith in 5.45 basic ammo considering the huge wound channnel that thin round leaves.

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I'm pulling out what's in my magazines vs. anything I could possibly get loaded to a military quality spec (staked and sealed primers, sealed case necks) equivalent in 5.45x39. Since ammo makers for the military or LE have NOT seen fit to invest in the 5.45x39, it's a moot point. I'm interested in what I can and do have, not what is theoretically possible. When they do that for 5.45x39, I'll stand in line and buy one. As of now, I have around 3,000 rounds of good stuff, including the SOCOM 5.56 optomized, 64gr Gold Dot bonded LE, and MK318 SOST. There is nothing in 5.45x39 that can compare, currently, of which I am aware.

However...7.62x39, I have shot a ton of stuff with it. Cinderblock, cars, wood, etc. and it destroys a lot more material/stuff than does 5.56x45, even using the SOCOM solid copper stuff. Also, loading the 7.62x39 with a Barnes TSX makes it supremely nasty. 0.6" expansion, 20"+ penetration in gel. Wicked. I know you can't buy it RIGHT NOW, but it is available and currently loaded, as is Federal Fusion, which is the same thing as a Gold Dot bonded, so 7.62x39 made way more sense for me than 5.45x39, at this point in time.