asht, you doing OK? I see you in here.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Said no-one ever, when "safety" meant potentially life.

I think I understand where you are coming from (maybe not) but many, many Americans have given up their lives to try to preserve the freedoms, rights, and privileges of their country-mates. "Live Free Or Die" is the motto of New Hampshire. Is it the smartest attitude to have? I don't know but it's the one many Americans have.

Just read that there is 8 strains of the virus now. They are all pretty close to one another. :icon14:

I get it. And I am not unsympathetic to the notion.

But this is like 9/11. In fact, by Wednesday the US death toll will exceed that of September 11. And the fatalities have barely started here (your country and mine). Yet this was entirely preventable, and the escalation can still be headed off. It's hard to protect people from themselves, but sometimes it has to be better to try.

Were the restrictions in the 5 days following 9/11 justified? Would you have agreed to those beginning the day before that tragedy? I don't think many would object, in hindsight. We have the benefit of seeing what happened in China, Italy, and now Spain. Why volunteer to be next? I think that Einstein had something to say about that :-)

That's all I'm saying.

In the beginning. We fought for our freedoms. Many have died for those freedoms. And will continue to do so. That principal is still with us today. It's instilled into our DNA. Those on the outside find it hard to understand. It what makes us Americans. How many people fly the flag? Almost everyone in my neighborhood does.

Not so much anymore. Some see the US much differently than you or I or those before us. Sad, but true. See the kids coming out of academia. I dont know what they're teaching these kids, but it really makes me wish for the draft or mandatory military service.

All the kids in my neighborhood went into the service after high school. There was only 2 that didn't.

Ben Franklin said that. And his *** invented lightning so...

Don't make me post the opening scene from "The Newsroom" ;-)

Tens of thousands of Canadians have done the same, and will again tomorrow. That blood is sacred here as well, and our freedoms hard won.

But there must be something in us (most of us) that makes us different from our southern neighbours, I guess. Because we haven't really needed to enforce infringements upon freedoms very much here (yet, at least) to fight this disease.

Of course, having a larger land mass and 10% of your population does help us with "social distancing" LOL.

It is not preventable on any realistic level. These "plagues" are going to crop up every now and then. Some people will always be overly optimistic and slow to respond (if they respond at all). Unfortunately, those people are often in charge of the response.

Fixed that for ya. ;)

I don't agree that it is necessarily better to try. People should have the right to do with themselves as they see fit. If Mother Nature thinks what they do is wrong, she will handle it.
Of course, when what they do harm to someone else, they should be stopped, but protecting them from themselves is ultimately counter-productive.

I'm not saying the US (and other countries) shouldn't be locked down for a while to limit damage - I think that would be a good idea. I was just pointing out that the US legal system does not allow that except in a declared national emergency. We have the emergency, just not the declaration. :(

Sorry I don't believe in that. You don't need to waive a flag to be American, you can be American by believing in its value and do your part. Waving a flag is like some rapper wearing goldchains to show they have money or pornstars with the cross necklace.

Come to my neighborhood. Small town America.

All these tags! :rofl2:

Yeah, what's with those?

Been a looonnnnggggg time since I watched that movie. Had to re-watch the opening on Youtube.
Your are correct, sir. The US is not perfect. Far from it. The US is comprised of humans with all the accompanying foibles.
The US has done a lot of wrong things in its' short history. A lot. Too many to enumerate here.
But the US has also done many good things. With CA's help we jumped in to kick the Nazis out of Europe. During foreign disasters, the US is always near the front of the line to provide support. Etc, etc, etc.
I have to totally agree that The Constitution is a masterpiece. Was/is it perfect? Nope, but it's pretty close (IMNSHO) and it has provisions to change towards something a little closer to perfect (or away from it, but you take the good with the bad).
As individual Americans, we run the same gamut as every other group of humans - some of us are saints, others are pure evil, and all points in between. From what I've seen, most of us are decent, compassionate folks.

I do not always agree with my government (and it seems like I agree less and less as time goes by) but I am always proud to be an American.

And I am so thankful that they did. :tiphat:

Y'all have a different culture up there. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. The culture in NYC, LA, etc is a lot different than it is here in S AR.

And probably has a lot to do with the cultural differences, especially when compared to the larger US cities. I'm guessing most rural Americans and rural Canadians have a lot in common - once you get past the weird accents. It's them city folks that mess everything up. :)

So now Liberal Sanctuary States are going door to door to rid them of other Liberal State Refugees.

Illegal Aliens are free to stay of course...

You can’t make this stuff up! Using the national guard to go door to door looking for NY’rs = good!

Letting ICE go door to door looking for illegal aliens = bad!

I can't fly any flags at my apartment community, but I do have a noticeable American Flag sticker on my car (driver side). What REALLY bothers me is when people post it the wrong way on the passenger side of the car.

The disease not, but the severity of the contagion yes.

Exhibit 1, Singapore.
2/3 the population of NYC in half the area, and in the shadow of China (lots of travel, trade, and expat community). Total of 879 cases, 1/4 of which are recovered, with only 3 deaths. First case was January 23.

Taiwan, as well (although politics prevent its status being reported independently from those of of mainland China since WHO amalgamated all Chinese data earlier this month) had its first case by January 21 and only 50 cases / 1 death by March 15.

Neither state is in lockdown. In fact, it has been business as usual for most citizens.

Compare to the New York experience. The lives saved came at the cost of a temporary loss of liberty, for sure. But not that much, because their governments reacted very quickly to the Chinese reports. There are temperature tests everywhere, incoming flights were screened from early January, those with the virus are under house arrest with GPS phone tracking and follow-up by police. The military was tasked with procuring or producing medical PPE. The travel and health care databases were merged and that shared with doctors and pharmacists who were asked to monitor and report suspected cases based on treatment or medication purchases (yes, the ACLU is apoplectic about now). But you can still go to a restaurant or a movie, or get your hair cut.

The point is, these lost freedoms (and more) are probably coming America's way. As you said, the state of emergency need only be declared. I suspect that the loved ones of most of the current and future victims probably aren't touting the "live free or die" mantra today. :-(

Quick Constitutional law refresher:

We have a declared state of national emergency. But that doesn't allow for a federally-mandated 'lockdown.' The federal gov't has no police powers - the authority to regulate behavior and enforce order within a territory for the betterment of the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the inhabitants within. That authority is reserved for the states under the Tenth Amendment.

The Constitutional right to travel freely is held under Article IV of the Constitution and the 14th Amendment. Both Shapiro v. Thompson and Saenz v. Roe have affirmed a Constitutional right to travel freely, and held that any government impingement on said right is subject to strict scrutiny.

Strict scrutiny requires that a law be struck down unless:

It is necessary to a "compelling state interest";

The law is "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose;

That the law uses the "least restrictive means" to achieve the purpose.

In the case of states closing borders to citizens of other states, while stopping the spread of this contagion is certainly a compelling state interest, such a blanket ban is neither narrowly tailored nor the least restrictive means available to achieve this compelling interest.

Therefore, such bans or border closures are unconstitutional.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Preparation and execute the plan. Ive spent alot of time in Asia and Singapore in particular. Hygiene matters and is practiced overall. My friends in Taiwan echo this. Its a cohesive effort with people taking it seriously.

Don't worry about it. It won't matter in another few days because ton of people will be infected and die, I guess some folks will die happy because they upheld the constitution and I am sure some folks will be happy that they upheld the constitution even though they sent some folks to their graves.

If you made into the tags. You're ........ah........say popular.........:rofl2:

Life is not easy. Life is not safe. Life is not fair. And Mother Nature is a triple-headed mega-bitch.

I don't want people to die but that's just the way the Universe we live in works. I didn't make the rules but I still have to live by them.

Mother Nature is having her revenge. She does the same with any species that over-populates an area. We humans have decimated/eliminated many species for our own convenience.

Thanks for the clarification.

I was using "emergency" wrong. From what I have read, it would take something like martial law for the Feds to step in. I'm definitely not a law expert, so, if that is wrong, please let me know.

Basically the way it works. The mayor has to ask the governor to declare a disaster. The governor declares a disaster. Then has to ask the president to declare a disaster. Then the president declares a disaster. Then the Feds get to work. IF the governor drags his feet. The president can't do anything until the governor declares a disaster. If the president does act before the governor. The president just stepped over his power. This is what happened with Katrina. The governor drug his feet in declaring a disaster. The Feds had everything staged and was waiting to go in and help. But had to wait instead.

I would like to believe that Congress, POTUS, FEMA, et al, will learn from this experience and streamline the process so that there are not so many delays next time ... but I really don't see it happening. The basic framework appears to be there but it needs some tweaking. It will take much wisdom and a willingness to do what is right for The Country to balance citizen vs state vs federal rights and responsibilities during a big emergency. I haven't seen much of either in Washington lately.

You folks in California, the Gulf Coast, NYC, and other places prone to disasters should be marching in the streets (as soon as the quarantine is over) to get this crap straightened out.

To whomever said I was going to be the first to die in the tags. LMAO, Do you know how many times I have heard this? So many I can't count. When my mom passed away when I was ten years old I wasn't going to make it to 18 years old. Then I wasn't going to make it to 21 years old. Because of the way I drove when I was younger I was going to die in a car accident. I was never going to amount to anything, just a bum. LMAO, well the last laugh is on you and it is mine for the taking. It's alright Rusty, I am use to this behavior.

The states had a big hand in being under prepared for something like this too. There is enough blame to go around to everyone. From the feds all the way down to the general public.

The preppers are sitting at home laughing their heads off over this. They don't have to go and get anything for the most part. Because they already had it a long time ago. The only things I had to go out for was bacon, eggs, bread,and milk.

I'm surprised that I survived my youth. People like us are like roaches. We'll be around long after everyone else is long gone.

This comes to mind for me. LOL

True dat. I should have included state and local authorities in the list of agencies that need to get their feces in one pile and start working with each other, not against.

I don't consider myself to be a true prepper* but I've got quite a bit of food, water, fuel, etc stashed around the house.

I'm not laughing at the unprepared; I'm keeping a close eye on them in case they decide they want my stuff. ;)


*I'm not a real Modo, I'm just a Quasimodo. :)

I go off of my experiences with storms, power outages, floods and such. My wifey lived in Wyoming for a while. There, you bought enough supplies to last you through the winter. Because you never knew when you was going to be snowed in for weeks. The next town over was 80 miles away.

Yeah. We get a lot of thunderstorms around here plus the occasional tornado.

I have been very pleased with my elec util the last 5 years or so. It's not that unusual to lose power during a very bad storm but it's usually restored within a few hours. The last extended outage was during/after a bad ice storm about eight(?) years ago. Sometimes they are able to reroute and the outage only lasts a few seconds. Back in The Good Old Days, it wasn't unusual to be out for 1-2 days, several times a year.

I have a ghetto powerwall, I want to be able to take a hot shower

Jar is REALLY popular apparently. And really on the tag "what kills jar: covid or kok"???? LMAO!!!!

Our volunteer staff are offering NHS workers at Milton Keynes University Hospital emergency car repairs to help them stay mobile as they fight to save lives. President of the business, Paul Spires, explains… #nhsheroes #nhsthankyou #protectthenhs #coronavirus #COVID19 pic.twitter.com/rU6ctObgxs
— Aston Martin Works (@AstonMartinWork) March 27, 2020

Everyone is (or, at the vey least, should be) trying to do their part in the fight to slow the deadly spread of COVID-19 and automakers are no exception. While GM and Ford race to re-tool plants and re-train volunteer UAW workers to build respirators, Aston Martin is doing what it can to keep National Health Service workers around its UK headquarters at their critical posts.

President of Aston Martin Works Paul Spires told Twitter in a video over the weekend that the department devoted to servicing both new and classic Astons would now be devoted to fixing NHS workers’ vehicles free of charge.

https://jalopnik.com/aston-martin-wi...fre-1842584365

Musk - Smart, but rude and arrogant. Rich has nothing to do with being a decent or worthy human being as others literally suffer. His money does not make him smarter than you or I. If you deny science and you live in scientific world to begin with.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-has-p...ame-1842416407

Interesting what the Australian media has reported on. Especially WHO.