Review: Motordyne E370
 

Update: 3/15/12

If you have been following this thread, last week Tony offered me a "more complete tune" by Church Automotive Testing (CAT) in Wilmington, on his dime. Having nothing to lose, I gladly accepted his offer and scheduled a dyno tuning session with Shawn Church for 12pm, Tuesday March 13th.

Tony was certain more power can be realized if both the timing and AFR was tuned as opposed to the tune by Seb@Specialty Z in which only the AFR was modifed.

I arrived at CAT at 12PM, however I was told Shawn has stepped out and would return shortly. At 12:15pm, another tuner said he'll go ahead and get my car strapped in and proceeded with the tuning session until completion at about 2:15pm. I would like to make it clear Shawn did not have any direct involvement in tuning my Z. However, Shawn did come over to the dynapack monitor several times and discussed the data log with the tuner.

Below are two photographs of the results. Green is the Specialty Z tuned map, and Red is the Church tuned map.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...rchdyno002.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...churchdyno.jpg



Results:

Horsepower dyno plot was identical up until 5K RPM. Moderate gains (estimated 5-7 HP) were seen with a Peak HP gain of 6 HP.

Torque dyno plot showed gains by the Church tuned map at almost every place under the curve. A considerable amount of torque (estimated 8 lb-ft) was gained between 5K and 6K RPM.

I was pleasantly surprised with the gains from CAT. I decided to validate and confirm these gains on another dyno. Directly after the tuning session with CAT, I drove to Specialty Z and had my Z on their dyno shortly after 4PM. Gains shown on one dyno will reflect the same gains on another dyno.

Below is an image of the two maps on the Dynojet. Blue is the best pull for the Specialty Z tuned map, Red is the best pull for the Church tuned map.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ifferences.jpg

Results:
Comparing the two tuned plots, both were strikingly similar. Peak HP and TRQ were identical. The two plots basically over laid one another. However, where are the torque gains between 5-6K RPM? Where are the HP gains after 5K RPM?


Questions/Comments welcomed.






------------------------

Original Post
2-26-12

For the past few months, I have been in the market for a new CBE to replace my Invidia Gemini. I really liked the Invidia. It was inexpensive, wasn't too loud, looks conservative and sounded great. I felt the only thing missing from the Invidia, was the power gains.

I narrowed down my choices to FI 18" CF CBE, Motordyne Shockwave, and the ARK Type 1 (not yet released). I actually was very close in buying a used FI CF CBE from a member this past January, but the sale fell through. ARK is lagging in their release of the Type 1 so my money went to Motordyne. I've read up on the Shockwave for the 350Z and knew I couldn't go wrong with Motordyne.

I contacted Tony@Motordyne and he agreed to deliver the E370 to Specialty Z in Chatsworth. Tony has been the utmost professional this entire time before, during and after the sale. He has showed great customer service through out.

I had very high expectations for the E370. The E370 is not exactly cheap. In my mind, I thought the Gemini was an inferior exhaust. A $1,600 exhaust VS a $800 exhaust. Most would agree the Motordyne E370 would outperform the Invidia on paper. Coming in, I knew the E370 was going to be LOUD, but if it provided additional HP over the Gemini, I could live with it.

This past Friday, I had Seb@SZ do pre install dyno pulls, his tech install the E370 with the assistance of Tony@Motordyne, then post install dyno pulls. Tony@Motordyne was present during the entire event. Pre and Post Dyno pulls were done on same day within 3 hours apart.


MODS:

• Motordyne ART pipes
• Stillen Gen 3 Cold Air Intake
• NST Pulley Set
• Uprev Tuned
• Invidia Gemini CBE

RESULTS:
Here is the dyno plot. Blue is best run with the Invidia. Green is best run with the E370. Considerable drop off in low end power. You can actually hear the flat spot as Seb@SZ gets on it on the dyno.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...beforetune.jpg

Here is the dyno plot with a re-tune for the E370. Red is the E370 re-tuned, blue is best run with Invidia.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...0aftertune.jpg


Sound/Daily Driving:
The E370 by no means is a conservative exhaust. It is LOUD. Exhaust sounds aggressive as expected. Below 3K RPM it is fairly quiet. Slight drone. Very streetable. However, when you go pass 3K RPM and go WOT, all hell breaks loose. When I was standing behind 10 feet behind the car during dyno runs for the Gemini, it was very bearable to the ear. As for the E370 post dyno runs, I had to move back further because it was almost deafening.

Fitment/Quality:
Fitment was spot on. The metal cover on the passenger rear did however had to be removed. Quality was superb. Nice clean welds. High quality shine. I went with the 4.5" tips because 5" tips looked too big.

Summary:
Overall, I spent $2,000 on exhaust/install/dyno time. I was stunned by the results. The Z started the day at 310 peak WHP, and left at 310 peak WHP. I was expecting to hit 315, maybe even 320 WHP after a re-tune. Needless to say, I was disappointed in the money I invested in the E370.

Sorry for the low quality vids. Not sure why it doesn't playback in HD.

Video on dyno:


Video cold start:


http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...an/e370003.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...an/e370005.jpg

Finally. I would like to thank Seb@SZ once again for his outstanding work! :tup:

So glad I got my invidia catback. Seems like you paid an additional $800 for a name change. Thanks for the review.

Subd... Sorry for your troubles. Glad to hear sebastion took good care of you though!

Mmmmmm ... I was thinking of swapping my Gemini for the motordyne but after this I am rethinking .... Wonder if Tony could explain ??

How was your tq and mid range ???

Yea, I'll let Tony chime in to explain why.

If I didn't do the dyno pulls, I would of said my butt dyno approves. It sounds intoxicating at WOT, makes you think the Z is pulling that much harder.

Apparently it was all much smoother, less stressed.

Thanks for the honest review. Man oh man sounds mean though..

sounds great but shame about the numbers

subscribed for further info & comments

You can't just look at the numbers, you also need to look at the correction factor. Reason being, the first time I dyno'd my car at Specialty Z, I ran 310rwhp/259ftlbs with the stock cat-back, Berk HFCs, G3 intakes, and a tune.

I ran only 312rwhp/262ftlbs when I dyno'd again after adding my FI cat-back, but if you look at the correction factor and used the same factors for both runs, I am running 320rwhp with the first dyno's correction factor.

Did you get any rasp or drone from Invidia Gemini + ART pipes? Maybe on 2000-3000 at WOT?

My pre and post dyno pulls were done 3 hours apart. Would the CF still play a role? If so, I'll ask Seb to chime in.


No rasp, very very little drone.

The dynos were done with basically identical environments and dyno. I'm pretty sure the dyno numbers are accurate.

Hi Jason,

Firstly, there won't be a big difference between one CBE to another if they are both straight through designs on a naturally aspirated engine.

Secondly, the smaller diameter pipes of the baseline invidia runs will indeed make more torque in the mid 2K RPM range. I've dyno tested the same thing with both 2.25" and 2.5" primary tubes on the XYZ pipe during development testing. I found this same difference of low end torque on the smaller pipes too but I also found the smaller primary pipes lose 2-3HP over a fairly wide range of high RPM. So the trade was made for more top end by selecting 2.5" primaries on the XYZ pipe.

Thirdly, a different state of tune. The baseline condition was fully tuned for both timing and A/F ratio. The post Shockwave))) dynos were retuned but only for A/F ratio. Although the final pre/post power numbers were the same in this test, differences of power curve smoothness (or lack thereof) shows that the two are not tuned to the same power threshold.

When a tune pushes the engines power curve to its absolute limit, the power curve starts to show a lumpy or wavy character as the engine pushes into the threshold of ping. (this lumpyness is seen in the baseline plots). The baseline tune was completely maxed out. The baseline power curve "lumpyness" is indicating that no more power can be made.

However, for the post testing, it was retuned but only for A/F ratio. There was no re-optimization of spark timing. Although spark timing was not retuned for the Shockwave))) it can be seen in the dyno plots that its power curve was smoother and much more consistent from run to run. Curve smoothness shows the post dyno runs are clearly below the threshold of ping. Smoothness of the Shockwave))) power curves indicates its was not maxed out. In my analysis, if the post Shockwave))) runs were also tuned for spark timing it would have made more gains.

As for loudness, the Shockwave))) is designed to be a loud exhaust but it will quiet down a bit once the mufflers break in at 2K-3K miles.

thanks for the honest review, repped

Theres a resonated option correct? How long are the resonators?

The resonators are 16". The resonators are also available with built in catalytic converters.

Both are in production now.

Good review!

So wait I'm confused? Does MotorDyne say this exhaust will make more then others?

No, but we do encourage fair and independent comparative testing.

Oh trust me that im the one who's confused not you and here is why

1st) Motordyne said in the past that they are making an exahust for VHR that nobody ever saw such a design/exhaust before, and after they release the E370 it looks just like all the exhaust produced for 350z/G35 coupe by Motordyne

2nd) Tony also said that E370 exhaust will produce the highest gains out of all the aftermarket exhaust... but the E370 was having hard time beating Invidia in this thread...

So... think again.. who's the one who should be confused now? LOL

Wait what? Nothing in your post explained why you can be confused but no one else. Wwhat? Dont get your logic.

I agree with you g37sHKS ... I was not expecting these kinda results from Motordyne .. I have patiently been waiting for this and to see these kind of results is a huge let down .. It is not a design that we haven't seen before. Almost identical dyno compared to what I would say is a inferior exhaust "Gemini" compared to the e370 . Just really not what I was expecting ..

Yes but this one is not ready yet.


Where did you see this?

Are the resonators available on their own? and if you ask for cats, is it cat and resonator? or just cat?

Based on the above, both are available together?




Also, guys, read what Tony replied with, this exhaust got exactly the same results as the other straight through exhaust, but it was less stressed with the Motordyne (had more power to be made)

Once you're straight through, there isn't much that can be made, it's down to sound type and level, however, as Tony already explained, this car has a very smooth power band, whereas it was lumpy before, indicating this isn't a super stressed tune on this exhaust, whereas it was before with the invidia.

Remember guys you pay extra for the quality/sound/power. Motordyne a exhaust is exceeds the quality of invidia in welds/looks/customer service and sounds sexier(IMO but it differs from person to person). I'm still eager to buy one but a resonated version. Because I daily mine. You guys have to stray away from the dyno queen peek number bs and look at how smooth the power band is and how it would most likely be a lot better exhaust for those thinking of a s/c because that exhaust has the potential of making more power. But would like to see it compared to other exhausts.

Not looking at the peak numbers .... It is what it is ...

Are the resonators available on their own?
Yes.

and if you ask for cats, is it cat and resonator?
Yes, its a combination of the two.


Based on the above, both are available together?
[/QUOTE]
Yes.

While it will show similar results for NA, it won't be hindered at all in forced induction applications. The Shockwave))) allows more headroom and versatility for forced induction because of the modular and progressive expansion design.

If you were to install a turbo later on you won't need to buy another exhaust to accommodate it. It will produce excellent results with no changes needed up to the ~500-600 HP range.

Shockwave))) covers both NA and most turbo applications because of its design and modularity. It certainly has more flow capacity than a dual 2.25" system.
And in many cases, in the 5 PSI-12 PSI range , the E370 overall performance will be better than either a full dual 2.5" or full dual 3" exhaust.

The Shockwave))) E370 is unlike any other exhaust in that it hits the sweet spot for both NA and most FI applications.

Here are the same runs plotted in their respective groups and a little more clearly.

These are the spark timing and A/F tuned baseline runs. They are inconsistent and lumpy which indicates it was tuned to the power limit and running on the edge of ping.
http://www.motordyneusa.com/media/ku...6/Baseline.gif



These are the A/F only tuned Shockwave))) post dyno runs. A near perfect overlay. They are very smooth and repeatable. If these runs were tuned in the same manner as the baseline runs, it would have made additional power.
This is actually a perfect tune. Although more power could be made by advancing the spark timing, you don't really want to push it beyond what you see here. The engine is very happy with this tune.
http://www.motordyneusa.com/media/ku...ts/66/E370.gif


Here are both sets of runs overlaid. This shows the relative difference in set to set repeatability.
http://www.motordyneusa.com/media/ku...66/Overlay.gif


The pre and post dyno runs were in different states of tune.


.

Yea Buyer Beware! You couldn't believe how shocked I was when I saw the results. And then I had to pay Tony the $1,600 after the testing just revealed NO GAINS! What just happened here? Did I just spend $1,600 for a nice smooth curve? :confused:

The Z community should know the E370 did not make any more power than the Invidia Gemini on my Z. Bottom line.

Tony provided you with the logic behind your installation and tune and you continue to ignore it and cry about peak whp gain on a NA CBE INSTALL. Did you honestly expect a huge jump in power going to another aftermarket cbe???

Huge jump? No. I would have been happy with ~5hp gain. We're talking about Invidia Gemini CBE...not Stillen or Fast Intentions.

As for Tony saying the baseline run with the Gemini was tuned for AFR and timing and showed a lumpy curve. The tune I had for the baseline included the Motordyne M370 manifold which I removed from the car 2 weeks earlier. Could this be the cause for the lumpy curve? Did this cause the Z to lean out a bit? Look at the AFR baseline. It was running lean.

If the Invidia baseline was re-tuned do you think the curve will still be lumpy? And if the Invidia baseline was re-tuned, a few more HP would have been squeezed out. How would that make the E370 look then?

Just a few points the Z community should consider.

Edit: I also had a blown 3-bolt exhaust gasket for the Invidia baseline runs. LOL

So what you're saying is, the test wasn't good because all these things changed beforehand?

LOL, i think at this point youre just trying to piss the OP off. He spent extra money to have the car dynoed before and after the install and shared the experience with the community. I dont think it could've been done any better than the OP had.

It's very apparent that youre a Motordyne fan boy and want to defend the exhaust. That's fine but there's no need to be taking it out on the OP.

The baseline runs for the Invidia Gemini wasn't good because all these things changed beforehand.

The power numbers for the E370 would not change. It is what it is.

Most manufacturers will generate and advertise their own numbers and then shy away from independent testing or comparisons. We don't.

Most won't build a data base of independent tests on a public forum for public distribution. We do.

There is nothing to hold back or hide. We'll do our best on our side and encourage independent reviews and testing. Even yours.

More independent tests and comparisons will be done over a range of conditions by various people and they will all be posted for everyone to see.

Thank you for doing the dyno testing and review.
Tony

Unless Tony told you his exhaust was going to make a decent amount of power more I think looking for a gain going from one aftermarket exhaust to another is just silly. I picked my FI because of quality and looks, all exhaust in this price range make around the same power.

:iagree:

these are "high-end" exhaust systems and you are paying for the superior sound, quality of the product and customer service. it seems OP has experienced the "intoxicating sound", and commented on the "superb" quality of the product, and Tony was present during install and now is here helping him with any concerns and questions he has. sounds like he's getting his money's worth if you ask me :tup:

+1

Tony himself was present during the install, what more can i ask for.