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The dyno sheet from SZ shows two plots. Blue is the SZ tuned map and red is Church tuned map. If the the dyno sheet from Church shows gains, the same gains should show in the SZ dyno sheet. Both dyno sheets are comparing the same two tuned maps, which were completed in the same day within hours of each other. |
Maybe i misunderstood what you wrote;
1) You had it tuned at Chruch, showed gains over the pulls on the same dyno moments earlier with the SZ tune on it. 2) You went to SZ, ran it on their dyno, showed ~same numbers. 3) You re-loaded the SZ tune whilst still on the SZ dyno and pulled it again. 4) There was no apparent difference between the two tunes on the SZ dyno. If all of the above is correct, what i'm suggesting, is that because the car already has the spark advance from the Church tune, then reloading the SZ tune (which didn't touch the advance) would not load any advance change because it doesn't contain spark advance in the SZ tune. That is what i believe the tune at Chruch was to show (gains possible with Shockwave & advance) So i'm saying that it looks like the reason you showed no change between the tunes when going back to the SZ tune, is because it still has the spark advance set from the Church tune. Make sense? |
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1. At Church, the church tuned map showed gains over the baseline (specialty tuned map). 2. Drove to SZ, ran the car on dyno with Church tuned map. (red curve) 3. Then reflashed the ecu and ran the SZ tuned map. (blue) 4. Correct. Do you see how we're comparing the same maps? Only difference is the dyno machine. Do you see why gains seen at Church, should also be seen when I was at SZ? |
Yes, that's how i understand what you did.
The point i'm making, is that the SZ map doesn't contain the "change" to the spark advance. Therefore, having had the Church tune on the car (which does contain the spark advance) and *then* putting the SZ map back on (which doesn't contain the spark advance details) The end result would then be that the spark advance would remain the Church setting even though the rest of the map would be on the SZ settings. That's why i suspect you wouldn't see a change when going back that way (Chruch to SZ) |
Ok I see why you are misunderstanding. You do know the timing settings do not jump from map to map right? The timing settings are exclusive to each map.
At Church, the timing settings with the Church map showed gains over the timing settings with SZ map. AT SZ, the timing setting with the Church map did not show gains over the timing settings with the SZ map. Do you see why I am confused why gains are seen at Church, while not at SZ? |
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Can Tony clear things up ???
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I don't know yet. Jason will be sending me the dyno run files so they may shed some light.
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This is why i posed it as a question, i'm not 100% sure how the uprev tune works, but in some tunes, only the altered values are loaded with a tune.
For example, and in this case, the suggestion i'm making, is that the SZ tune doesn't contain the spark advance change value, therefore, loading the SZ tune over the Church tune, results in the spark advance not changing. This was the way my SCT tune on the Mustang worked, i'm questioning whether the uprev works the same way. |
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I dont want to jump to conclusions prematurely, but i want to applaud the OP for taking matters into his own hands. Instead of accepting the dyno showing gains from Church, he took the car to another shop to verify the gain at his own expense. I think the least we can get out of this story is that you cant always trust the hp gains on a dyno graph. I'm sure there are things that a tuner can do to make it seem like your car gained hp after tuning.
Product reviews are often swayed by partial sponsorship and/or discounts given on their purchase. Dont see many reviews based on true performance numbers like this one. |
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Not saying that it happened in this situation, but it's definitely possible when people come back from tuners with 20-40 whp gains.
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Even the manufacturer said the gains from wouldn't be significant from one CBE to another
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And the plot thickens ......
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Ignore the fact i didn't put a question mark at the end of the sentence, it was phrased as a question ;)
And no, until someone comes back with the files as proof one way or another, or someone who knows the uprev tuning can say that the spark advance/any other tune contents can be missing, i still think my suggestion/question is what may have happened. Read the Osirus tuning guide/instructions as to how it works, IIRC, it does suggest that what i asked is possible. |
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Haters hating. |
Tony ,,,,, How much longer for the G37 exhaust ??? Thanx !
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The OP and the lynch mob here aren't looking at the quality of the exhaust or potential of the exhaust, only a relative figure on a dyno. One exhaust to the next isn't going to produce extreme hp changes with minor modifications. No one made claims of tons more horsepower from your exhaust anyway.:rolleyes: If the OP is so interested in building NA hp and seeing the actual potential of the exhaust, then he needs to be more concerned about engine internals and fuel system. Those who are trying to compare an exhaust like the Gemini to the Motodyne, are attempting to do the impossible on the cheap and aren't interested about the exhaust's actual potential. They've already reached the maximum you're going to spend on engine modifications and time spent. Most of them are just looking for, a posers excuse. I said it before and I'll say it again; "hp cost money," there are no short cuts and if you're not willing to part with it in the endeavor of finding hp, then you're just like the next, all mouth and no action. There's no comparison in flow characteristics or quality between the two. Attempting to discredit a manufacture, which the OP and company are attempting to do purely on a dyno results, is about as lame as it comes. Spend the money, add high compression pistons, cams, oversized valves, port and polished heads, upgraded intake manifold, upgraded fueling system and intake and you'll begin to see what the exhaust is truly capable of. Something the GT Haus, Akrapovic, and Gemini aren't designed for and can't accomplish based on their design limitations. As I suggested before to the OP; "sell the exhaust and find something cheaper that you can afford and will be happy with." You got way more than what you paid for. You're just ungrateful, GET A LIFE! :rolleyes: Tony and Motodyne have gone way out of the way to accommodate you and everyone else here, from photos, videos, technical information, free dyno's and more. If that doesn't show their sincerity to produce an affordable top quality exhaust, then you're far more stupid then I originally suspected. I've not yet purchased the exhaust but I can assure you based upon Motodyne's willingness to go the extra mile and the exhausts hp potential I will be purchasing the exhaust. The quality, rivals the GT Haus and Akrapovic, the price is far more palatable in comparison and far out classes any of the others available at a similar price. Tony, best advice; no matter what you do for some people, they will never be satisfied. They're always expecting more than they paid for. Their expectations are far to high and unrealistic. In this case the OP got far more and is expecting something he's not entitled to. It's akin to being a heroin addict and they're always expecting other's to provide them with their fix. You've proven your sincerity time and time again. You've got nothing more to prove and everything to gain. Anything else, will be simply wasted on this individual or anyone else in agreement with him. Don't expect any kudos from this lot. There's one actual buyer here and a lynch mob who have absolutely no clue! Like you said, Haters are going to hate, no matter what you do or provide.:shakes head: Just, "Keep on truckin!":tup: |
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The only thing I see here is, your just one of the self-conflicted mob. Go back and read the full thread. He spent nothing compared to what's really required on tuning or real upgrades for a horsepower making NA motor. There's allot more required then a couple of dyno's to measure those characteristics and tune a NA motor. It takes considerably more work and tuning. The tunes used are moderate at best. UPRev and SZ are for the masses, and don't provide the parameters needed to dial in extensive modifications. There's only one tune available that will and it's not cheap. The rest of the lynch mob, is self explanatory.:shakes head: |
Anyone going to be going from a stock exhaust to the E370? Wouldn't mind seeing a dyno of that.
Have the manifold and couldn't be happier with it. All I want is the right catback and my setup is exactly what I want. Reliable and a better drive than the stock car. |
I have the s tune nismo CB exhaust ($1499) that i got 14 wrhp from, now im gonna get the Meisterschaft Exhaust systems thats 1000 more then the nismo CB. im pretty sure im not gonna gain power from the Meisterschaft Exhaust systems just because it cost more. im pretty sure i might even see a drop off in power. or did tony say "hey your gonna see more power from the e70 system"?
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Am I understanding all this correctly? People on here are expecting gains going from one catback to another? If so, then yea you're gonna be disappointed.
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okay...
ya'all bickering is just ruining this thread. Everyone knows that N/A the more mods you add, the less gains you see per mod. so swapping exhausts, when you already have the TP, intakes / tune etc isnt gonna see alot of variance. When the rest of the car is 100% stock except for a catback, then swapping to the Motordyne would be more interesting and give a better view of how the exhaust compares to the others. Either way, in the end, 1-2hp SHOULDNT matter to anyone really... how often do you go full throttle with something on the line (99% of drivers here) If your thinking about getting this exhaust, you should be basing your decision on Sound, looks, fitment and then the fact that you won't lose HP. Cus trust me, you will not notice 1-2hp as you drive. but you will notice the sound and the look and the added rattles if its a crappy fitment. Now, can the other people stop bickering and let this get back on topic.. (slightly) |
I think most questions have already been addressed, what everyone should be looking at now, is this;
1) The re-tune gained HP and torque with the E370. 2) The same tune on the previous tuners dyno, showed the same (new) power both with the new tune and the old tune. I still argue (until someone proves otherwise) that the old tune doesn't contain the spark advance data change (because it wasn't part of the tune) and therefore, when adding the old tune back on, it wouldn't "remove" or set the spark advance back to the previous value, when applied. If not that, or another reason, what's being said, is that one of the tuners is fixing numbers, which is ludicrous in my opinion. |
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the exhaust is amazing in quality, sound and performance. Tony provides arguably the best service in the industry. what more can you ask for? /thread |
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Allow me to show you how Uprev's Osiris works. When you flash the ECU using Uprev, you use a ROM file. Here is a picture of what each ROM file consists of: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-od-7ntTLUG...09-01_0010.jpg As you can see, each ROM file contains Fuel Tables, Ignition Timing, Cam Phasing, etc etc. It contains every parameter that the ECU needs to run the car. Every time you flash with a ROM file, every parameter is overwritten. Now, in the OP's situation: SpecialZ's tune: Will have revised Fuel Tables. But if the Ignition timing was not tuned, then it will contain stock ignition timing. Just because Ignition timing was not tuned, it doesnt mean it's missing from this ROM file. It just means it contains the stock ignition timing. Every ROM file has to have an ignition timing. Church's tune: Revised fuel tables and revised Ignition timing, since both were tuned. So the OP ran the dyno with Church's tune. He then reflashed the ECU back to the SpecialZ's tune. During this process, Fuel Table, Ignition Timing, Cam phasing, everything is replaced back with SpecialZ's. |
OK, thanks.
I can't find the tuning section i thought i remembered about being able to edit specific functions, ie. only edit the values you specify. Based on that, the only other conclusion i can come up with, is that someone is calling the tuners liars :( That or there is some kind of equipment irregularity; The A/F ratios are almost identical in the SZ tune, in the CAT tune, the SZ A/F was all over. |
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i went from stock to E370 check out my thread here |
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Quick question, how do you think it compares to fast intentions? Aggressive growl going WOT? |
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Why, because you're spouting off about a NA engine and tuning, which you have absolutely no experience in building or personally tuning. I've read some of your BS posts to other members and a performance engine builder you're not, coming from one who is.:rolleyes: You see, some of us like Motordyne, are in the performance business and make and actual living out of it. Three generations of engine builders and performance shop owners are part of my family, for good reason. That's experience, conviction and dedication to the sport. Not like you Nar-du-well hobbyist owners, who drift in and out of the sport. You're the type who believes they've got the pulse on engine building or tuning, on the contrary you haven't got a clue. You lack the knowledge and conviction but are always prepared to ridicule a manufacture, about something you don't understand or comprehend. Frankly, you believe your qualified to give advice to others but in reality, people like yourself cause more problems then good. You've already given out enough of bad advice through previous threads. Bolting on a TT on a 3 year old G37 is no great feat or accomplishment. Leave the NA engine building and tuning advice, to those who have enough experience not to lead others in the wrong direction. You're the worst kind of troll. You only jump in when everything else has been said and done, just to add your BS and stir the pot.:stirthepot: Last time I checked, this was a 370Z enthuiast forum, which you don't seem to own.:shakes head::gtfo2: |
I'm interested in the comparative lack of comments by the OP actually :(
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If you read this entire thread, several others like it, then asked Tony questions, you might understand the dynamics and flow characteristics of their exhaust. Expecting an additional 10 hp out of any exhaust with the OP's current modifications, is nothing but a pipe dream. This has been stated unequivocally many times throughout the thread. The OP's expectations are overly inflated. When the exhaust didn't produce a significantly greater hp output, he started bad mouthing Tony and Motodyne. Then came the not so proponent "lynch mob." It always works out this way on forums. Members jump on the, "complainers band wagon" without owning or utilizing the product, without the slightest bit of understanding. Of course you having the mentality of a child, this needed to be spell out for you. DILLIGAF what you purchased from Motodyne in the past. It doesn't have a bearing with your original comments to me or make you anymore creditable. I used your lack of engine building experience as a example; to demonstrate you've got Tee Tee experience but act as if you're some self-professed expert, not just here but in allot of previous threads. There's a great deal more to building and tuning a NA engine then just bolting on parts, installing a tune and expecting to see massive hp gains. As a point of reference and experience, all you've done is a, bolt on DIY TT install. My point being again: You lack experience with NA tuning or building, let alone attempting to have a lengthy discussion on exhaust flow characteristics or attempting to diagnosing a supposed tuning issue with a manufactures exhaust. Again, it's called experience. You want others to believe your highly experienced and creditable but frankly you've been called out by someone who earns a living at it daily. Along with a family who's been sustained by it for three generations. So in a nut shell, it's not a question weather or not I have extensive engine building knowledge, it's more to demonstrated your lack of, big difference. Let him take it to a professional and have the proper tuning parameters installed and adjusted. Though, no matter what he does with the modifications he current is running, there's not going to be a substantial gain from one exhaust to the next, until he takes the next step. When and if he does he'll understand. Simply put, there is a much greater potential enhancement with the Motodyne. Hence sell the Motodyne to someone else who will appreciate it as is or be satisfied with the current results and move on, instead of trying to disway others from purchasing it.:rolleyes: Most of these type of threads start and end up in a very negative way against the part manufacture, this one is no different. Eventually, in come the "know it all trolls" like yourself, attempting to find additional fault or issues, where there is none.:shakes head: You follow?:shakes head: |
[QUOTE=Skull Crusher;1608303]
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No one is hating on Motordyne. This is an E370 discussion thread. I posted results that was not in favor of the manufacturer, and got heat for it. I have paid for everything I bought from Motordyne. No partial sponsorships, no discounts. I do not owe Motordyne anything. Sure, Motordyne offered me a free tuning session and I accepted it. In addition to the free tune, I was also offered a free set of revised ART pipes with free install and dyno for R&D by Motordyne. Do you think I accepted that? Why do you think Motordyne did this? Are you calling me ungrateful because I did not readily accept the retuned numbers from Church and should have stopped there? Maybe this is all a misunderstanding, perhaps a technical difference between dyno machines. The run files have been requested so we may have our questions answered shortly. |
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I don't feel the need to post photos or share lengthy commentary about myself, our businesses goals, experience or accomplishments, especially on the Internet. Those skills are known by customers we are paid to work for. I read allot and observe. You on the other hand feel an almost obsessive need to puff out your chest at every opportunity and tell everyone about your marvelous personal accomplishments, expertise, experience and understanding of a G37! Woohoo, I not impressed. Now that I've accomplished what I originally intended, you can have fun playing with yourself and leave the technical information to those who understand and are aware of how to utilize it. See ya!;) |
OK, someone answer me this, did, or did not, Seb from SZ post earlier on in this thread?
I've just gone back and browsed through, i couldn't find his posts at all, i could have sworn they were there as he originally took offence to something Tony@Motordyne said. I also remember someone mentioning that there was either nothing to gain from tuning spark advance or that it couldn't be tuned on the 370. Someone please help me out here, i don't like where all this is heading. |
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