Yup, I referred to this post somewhere back on page 4 before god knows what happened and we veered off into brake ducting and 5.0 hatred. :rofl2:

Iat's are somewhat separate from straight tube temps.


The heat conductivity of the plastic is very low, although the plastic is somewhat thin so you see some heat transfer.

With the stagnant air in front of the inlet, though, you see a huge iat spike when sitting. You can alleviate this a little with ducting, but for the most part it is unavoidable.

lol, yea i kept jumping on and off the thread. at one point i thought i went into the wrong one by accident:confused:

no no, this was just a pop the hood and sort of feel around where I could feel the most heat... the passenger airbox most definitely gets hot with that radiator hose close/under it though... the drivers side was surprisingly much cooler, but like I said, this was most roads being 40-45 mph with little engine load. I did get on it on the highway a bit, but this is only about a mile stretch both ways and then it was back to another 10 minutes of the lower speeds. For being only 60 degrees and very windy, it was warm... on a 90 degree day with heavy engine load I can only imagine.

this is interesting... but from someone who has only 60 posts and i'm not sure how accurate his set-up is... I would still like to get more measurements.

That corroborates with what I've seen logged via Osirus uprev. 60 posts here doesn't mean he doesn't know about cars -- sounds like he has good datalogging devices on hand :)

You may be able to bring IAT's down some with additional shielding, but in practical terms the major benefit would be seen staging at the drag strip rather than on the road.

That said, if you are curious and want to tinker, the easiest solution might be to pick up a good OBDII datalogger cable that can be used with software on a PDA (e.g., the auterra) so that you can datalog changes in airtemps and get good estimates of mean temps with and without extra shielding over a range of circumstances.

lol oh hell no... i'm not running anymore wires or laptops or any of that crap in my car... i'd rather just shield everything and know it's ... well just cooler lol.

not gonna happen, no money in the Budget, only way is if we can find a way to trim some money somewhere else to offset the cost of the beer and travel expenses.

jordo...i guess we are a dying breed....

i've actually seen better temp reading results from road usage than track usage. by the time you're off, the brake have cooled enough that a good reading is more difficult to get.

You are right, the Z never saw the track. I saw catastrophic fuel starvation in a 40mph turn autocrossing it. Engine shut down, car would not start for 24hrs. Didn't really feel any desire to put it on the track after that.

As to your second comment, no worries on that. I don't feel any need to compare my car to the z. I chose to make a switch for my own personal reasons, and I don't need to prove why to anyone here.

Pro Tip: Keep more than a 1/4 tank of gas in the car.

1: no one tracks with a full tank
2: about 5/8ths full when it happened

quote from AK


Keep gas in your car. :bowrofl:

Sometimes you don't want to run a heavy fuel load, though. Especially if you are just doing a ~60 second competitive autocross run.

Though given the circumstances you kind of have to, but we are getting close to a fuel starve solution from what I have read. Currently in testing but so far it has had positive results.

several members here have had fuel starve at 9/10ths full when using r comps at the track. There is a definite flaw in nissan's gas tank design for this car.

On street tires, I think fuel starve can happen as early as 7/10ths if you push hard enough on the "right" (or wrong depending on how you look at it) track.


if you track this car, you MUST top off the tank between sessions. Very annoying.

PS--come on Phunk, get that damn fuel tank fix out dammit. :excited:

I knew it was Phunk. He's not going to release it until it's 100% ready. Can't rush that!

with 9/10s? I dont think there is enough empty space in the tank at that point to ever slosh is far enough to one side. Unless the fuel pump is mounted on the the edge of the fuel tank.

oh yeah, I don't want him to push a half a$$ product ot market either, esp since w/in the next 12-18 months, I'll be getting it.

Ask Mike (the powdercoater), chris slicks, cossie or anyone else here that tracks aggressively.

Even my wife has had to keep the tank topped up betwn sessions and she is not as fast as the guys above...yet. (still getting comfortable with the Z vs our last cars that she tracked that were awd).

what exactly is the defect? The gas would have to be unpumpable by the pump in some sort of fashion, meaning its sloshing to far to one side or there is a divider thats its getting held behind, etc.

yep, especially at ~6lbs/gallon for gas. Keeping the Z full is lot of extra weight.
I hope phunk's solution turns out well. I'm surprised it took this long, since I don't think it should be a difficult fix.
yep. very easy to get stutter-starve with a nearly full tank.

you can actually hear my car stutter-starve on some of our dragon runs, and god knows I wasn't driving hard.

I think it's the fuel pickup placement and the tank design. Take a look at this diagram: 172 Fuel Tank :: Fuel & Engine Control :: Genuine Nissan Parts :: 370Z Parts (Z34) 2009-2011 :: Nissan Parts, NISMO and Nissan Accessories - Courtesyparts.com

From reading the fuel starve thread it just seems like the pickup is at the front right of the tank, and given the tank design fuel can run away from the pickup even when it's darn near 9/10ths full if you are in the "right" type of right hand corner. Seems like you need to be on R Comps to successfully starve the pump at 9/10ths, though.

I've never heard it in all my times on the dragon. There are a couple local 370s that autocross quite competitively and don't have it. *shrug*

It has to do with the shape of tank, location of the pickup point iirc. Basically, under very hard right handers you'll get fuel cut, usually it is just a hicup and then you're on your way, but depending on the lenght of the turn, level of gas in the tank etc, it can kill your car, pretty serious issue if you're on the track with other cars imo.

there's plenty of threads on this that will explain it better than I'm doing it lol.

I never had it in mine either and I have driven the car pretty hard on low fuel. It seems like you really need to be in a long (and hard) enough right hander to keep the fuel away from the pickup long enough to starve it. Probably not going to happen for most people on the street, but definitely presents a big issue on certain tracks.

I can see it now that I see the shape of the tank, it looks prone to pooling in the lower parts or not being able to flow back over the middle part if its to one side. Would still seem hard to do with 9/10s but i could see it at about 60% or less

Yep. You really have to be in the corner long enough to kill the car, usually it's just a hiccup that you can recover from. You can draw the fuel away from the pickup but there will still be some queued to get pumped through. If you run out of that and are still in the corner then there's your engine cutoff. I think there needs to be an element of forward acceleration as well since the pump is at the front of the tank.

Yeah definitely easy with 60% or less. I think for 9/10ths you really need to be on R Comps and on track. There's just no other way that I could see that happening with that much fuel in the tank... you'd need a damn long and fast corner to pull it off!

exactly.

Soooo, I'm thinking about getting some PMTs to go with my k&n drop ins, you think it's worth it or should I just get some G3's?????:happydance:

yeah, it's usually happening in turns you are accelerating out of.

a lot of times you won't notice a mild starve. the car will miss, but keep on going...it feels a lot like vdc kicking in

That probably explains why I never experienced it on the street. There are never any real long right handers that you accelerate hard from apex-out on the street. The typical ramp is taken at a constant speed and I am not exactly attempting to pull 1.3G on public roads. I know I have made several spirited on/off ramp runs with the Z on 1/4 tank or less and never had an issue.

Regardless, it's good to know Phunk is making progress and that a solution will be available to those that have the problem (hopefully) shortly.

yeah, it's not really much of a problem on the street. you should never be putting yourself into a fast turn you need to accelerate out of.

one of the rt 28 uphill clovers would be the only spot i ever saw it on the street(dragon aside), but that's likely due to it being an uphill turn.

I wonder if Jon will be interested in the new tank/pickup. I kind of want to drop the tank on a Z now. :icon17:

blades will need one, or at least he will believe us if we tell him he does.

TBH the main thing I am looking forward to is installing some brake ducting.

I have nothing informative to contribute to this thread, but I hate Red_Zed so here I am.

I just don;t like cutting into the fender liner. I haven't seen anything that doesn't require that.

Why? It's just plastic. No big deal. Super easy with a hole saw.

The only thing that scares me on the Z is the cats... I will do just about any install on the car but I won't mess with that demon bolt. :icon17:

Is there no other way around this?

:iagree: But if you have to... what choice do we have? :ugh2:

not so much the trouble, more the resale. if you're keeping the car it is not a problem.

I didn't really have issues with the demon bolt, even on jackstands in my garage. I was very worried though...

It's possible that the brake duct scoops could be routed to take in air from underneath the car, then you wouldn't need to cut anything. But if the ducting takes air from up front, you need to cut the fender liner to run the tubing. But it shouldn't be a problem at all.