Nissan 370Z Forum
Page 2 of 5 1 2 34 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Intake/Exhaust (http://www.the370z.com/intake-exhaust/)
-   -   Post Maf Tubes & Drop-ins, worth it?? (http://www.the370z.com/intake-exhaust/44143-post-maf-tubes-drop-ins-worth.html)

Pelican170 10-19-2011 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1366825)
That's seems... unlikely... even with open headers the factory intakes should flow more than enough air.

Did you have a tune? My guess is that fueling and or spark just wasn't optimized for the headers.

Anyway, I was a bit suprirsed at first to find little or no evidence of huge differences between a modified factory intake set-up and cone filters, which are theoretically much more flow friendly, but the difference does indeed seem to be fairly minimal.

The factory airboxes just aren't particularly restrictive (no wacky butterly valves in the way, and already has ducting to the bumper to bring in cooler air), and the plastic pieces do a good job of blocking underhood heat too. Nissan did a good job -- go figure.

Basically, the smoother tubes and less restrictive element flow about as well as the cone filters. The possibly (but unconfirmed to the best of my knowedge) cooler temps that might be achieved with the G3 or a similar CAI design, which may (or may not) have a better location to draw air than the factory ductwork are proably somewhat negated by the fact that metal tubing will also conduct more heat than plastic and silicone.

So, actually, the relatively small addditional gain over modded factory isn't really that surprising if you really think about it...

That said, if you are a serious power junkie and desperately want every last whp , if you can find the G3's for ~$200-$250 used, I think it would be worth it as you spend almost that much on high flow panel filters and tubes, so for a little more cash you get a few more hp.

Brand new, IMO, the price is kinda steep for what you gain in power over the modified factory set-up -- I guess if you really like the sound, one could argue that's another bonus to justify the price...

Oh, on that note, there is some evidence that cone filters that do not draw air from in front of the bumper (i.e., "short rams") appear to lose power over the factory boxes, a least on the basis of a few dynos...

So, cliff notes...

Bang for the buck = high flow filters + silicone smooth tubing.

Money no object, gimmie every last whp -- I live life a 1/4 mile at a time = some sort of CAI (i.e., "long tube") set up.
Id say thats a good summary...

Methodical4u 10-19-2011 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GZ3 (Post 1366343)
well worth it for me, i got a bout 9rwhp with the AFE drop ins and the HPS post mafs
curious if this was with other mods or no?

GZ3 10-19-2011 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1367062)
curious if this was with other mods or no?
no,just post mafs and drop in.... this was before i added art pipes, i got 298rwhp with just ART pipes, post mafs and drop ins@ uprev in austin on dynojet

harp00n 10-19-2011 04:23 PM
nice write, Jordo!

I have HPS tubes and stock filters and I can say I like my throttle response after adding tubes only!

It's a very dusty area here, so I'm afraid of using AFE drop-ins, because I'm not sure about their filtration ability... Or maybe they are good at filtering?

Methodical4u 10-19-2011 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GZ3 (Post 1367102)
no,just post mafs and drop in.... this was before i added art pipes, i got 298rwhp with just ART pipes, post mafs and drop ins@ uprev in austin on dynojet
That's interesting... so you were tuned but had no cbe with these numbers?

XwChriswX 10-19-2011 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1366825)
So, cliff notes...

Bang for the buck = high flow filters + silicone smooth tubing.

Money no object, gimmie every last whp -- I live life a 1/4 mile at a time = some sort of CAI (i.e., "long tube") set up.
:inoutroflpuke: :icon18: :tup:

One_Quick_Z 10-19-2011 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1365891)
you going FI?
Thinking of switching to G3's or some other form of intake with a harder intake tube because I am tossing the idea around of getting N2O again and use that at the track.....






DAN

Methodical4u 10-19-2011 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Quick_Z (Post 1367542)
Thinking of switching to G3's or some other form of intake with a harder intake tube because I am tossing the idea around of getting N2O again and use that at the track.....






DAN
oh ok... well that's understandable. Remember that Motordyne is going to be working on an intake set-up too... don't know when it will be out though.

henry0844 10-19-2011 09:06 PM
also I think I read that the diameter of the maf section of the g3's are larger than stock so it leans the Afr out a little causing a bit more gains. you would probably see better gains after a tune with the g3's than drop ins and post maf tubes. again tho, requires more $$$;)

Red__Zed 10-19-2011 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by henry0844 (Post 1367761)
also I think I read that the diameter of the maf section of the g3's are larger than stock so it leans the Afr out a little causing a bit more gains. you would probably see better gains after a tune with the g3's than drop ins and post maf tubes. again tho, requires more $$$;)
a lot of the g3's gains come from leaning out the AF. a lot of times the gains disappear once it is brought back to safe levels.

Methodical4u 10-19-2011 09:28 PM
The more people post here, the more I am am believing that drop-ins pmt's and fang vents are the better and cheaper way to go. I know that a lot of systems produce more power by tricking the ECU, the G3 design is obviously an excellent one, but for 500.00, is it really worth it?

Has anyone ever thought about insulating their airboxes with some sort of ducting tape or type of insulation?

Masa 10-19-2011 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1367788)

Has anyone ever thought about insulating their airboxes with some sort of ducting tape or type of insulation?
There really is no need to insulate the factory(?) airboxes. Plastic does not soak in heat like polished metal tubes do and it is already ducted and sealed in the engine bay. It draws air straight from the bumper outside the bay. :confused:

Methodical4u 10-19-2011 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masa (Post 1367808)
There really is no need to insulate the factory(?) airboxes. Plastic does not soak in heat like polished metal tubes do and it is already ducted and sealed in the engine bay. It draws air straight from the bumper outside the bay. :confused:
I see you're right across the bay from me, more people here from Md. than I realized.

On topic though... keep in mind that every 10 degrees cooler there is a 1% increase in power.... hence the reason so many people try to find every advantage possible to keep intake temps down. Sitting in traffic or just idling, WILL bring temps up... even if only by a marginal amount, every little bit we're talking power.

Masa 10-19-2011 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1367910)
I see you're right across the bay from me, more people here from Md. than I realized.

On topic though... keep in mind that every 10 degrees cooler there is a 1% increase in power.... hence the reason so many people try to find every advantage possible to keep intake temps down. Sitting in traffic or just idling, WILL bring temps up... even if only by a marginal amount, every little bit we're talking power.
Yep, surprised you haven't popped up at a MD meet yet. :tiphat:

On topic - no arguments that idling in traffic will bring temps up but once you get moving again the temps drop down drastically. I believe it was in the other thread that talked about the hps tubes where a guy took temp readings of the intakes at idle and at speed to measure how fast temps went back down. Since the plastic airbox and silicone tubes dont soak in heat, the intake temps drop down drastically when moving air passes through them. At this point it really is just nitpicking since when you are driving the car around normally it really won't matter and when you are tracking the car there will always be cool air passing through the intakes (hps tubse or g3's) where heat soak won't even be a problem - oil temps will be. :icon17:

XwChriswX 10-19-2011 11:53 PM
Have you considered the guys that get their Gen III's powder-coated, or perhaps some other coating applied that helps resist heat soak on the metal because there is another coating on it that is more resistant to heat? Say more reflection than absorption?

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XwChriswX (Post 1368024)
Have you considered the guys that get their Gen III's powder-coated, or perhaps some other coating applied that helps resist heat soak on the metal because there is another coating on it that is more resistant to heat? Say more reflection than absorption?
I have actually thought about that and wondered if the powdercoating would make things better or worse... I think even sitting the G3's only get about 25-30 degress above ambient temp though.

Jordo! 10-20-2011 01:25 AM
You could experiment with stuff like this

Heatshield Products

Would be tough to determine if it made much a difference without being able to log air temps from the ECU tho'...

I suppose you could pick up a couple of temp probes and do it in a DIY manner to get an idea how well it's working. May or may not show up on a dyno, espeically with fans blowing and the hood open.

Or, if you are looking to cool things down for a drag race... CryO2 intake systems

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1368108)
You could experiment with stuff like this

Heatshield Products

Would be tough to determine if it made much a difference without being able to log air temps from the ECU tho'...

I suppose you could pick up a couple of temp probes and do it in a DIY manner to get an idea how well it's working. May or may not show up on a dyno, espeically with fans blowing and the hood open.

Or, if you are looking to cool things down for a drag race... CryO2 intake systems
Reps for the info... very interesting stuff. If the weather is clear tomorrow i'm going to take the car out for a normal ride and try to get just an idea on how hot the airboxes get, sitting temps, and then harder driving temps. That will give me an idea if it would be benificial to add some heat shielding.

Jordo! 10-20-2011 02:14 AM
Thanks :tiphat:

If you can find a slender enough probe, you might just be able to kind of wedge it in the part of the airbox that holds the filter and clamps down, and still get everything sealed up airtight .

It would have to be something like a thin length of wire, but I think there are temp probes like that to be found realitively inexpesnively. That should get you a pretty good reading of what the MAF IAT probe is seeing.

Also be sure to take note of the ambient air temps (I guess whatever the Z's readout says will do) to see how much the airbox temps fluctuate from that.

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1368126)
Thanks :tiphat:

If you can find a slender enough probe, you might just be able to kind of wedge it in the part of the airbox that holds the filter and clamps down, and still get everything sealed up airtight .

It would have to be something like a thin length of wire, but I think there are temp probes like that to be found realitively inexpesnively. That should get you a pretty good reading of what the MAF IAT probe is seeing.

Also be sure to take note of the ambient air temps (I guess whatever the Z's readout says will do) to see how much the airbox temps fluctuate from that.
yeah, this is going to take me a while lol. I'll post my results once I get everything I need.

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 02:23 AM
oh, and i'll rep you when it will let me lol... it says I repped you not long ago, don't know why that matters.

GZ3 10-20-2011 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1367474)
That's interesting... so you were tuned but had no cbe with these numbers?
this was untuned!

harp00n 10-20-2011 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by harp00n (Post 1367231)
nice write, Jordo!

I have HPS tubes and stock filters and I can say I like my throttle response after adding tubes only!

It's a very dusty area here, so I'm afraid of using AFE drop-ins, because I'm not sure about their filtration ability... Or maybe they are good at filtering?
any thoughts about the AFE drop-ins? are they good at filtering? :confused:

p.s. I also thought about heat shielding stock airboxes, so it would be nice to know if it makes sense :tiphat:

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 09:04 AM
Why do you guys feel the need to heat shield plastic air boxes that keep iat's far lower than shielded g3s?

GZ3 10-20-2011 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by harp00n (Post 1368264)
any thoughts about the AFE drop-ins? are they good at filtering? :confused:

p.s. I also thought about heat shielding stock airboxes, so it would be nice to know if it makes sense :tiphat:
AFE dryflows are what i had, they are great filters that do just as well as K&N...

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1368338)
Why do you guys feel the need to heat shield plastic air boxes that keep iat's far lower than shielded g3s?
Have you taken the temps of the airboxes while the car was sitting? If so, what were they? Have you taken temps of around town driving? If so, what were they? Have you taken ANY temps of the airboxes at all? If so ... what were they? Every degree cooler is going to result in power, if only by a marginal amount.


Quote:
That's because, on a 90 degree day, sitting at a redlight for a few minutes, your IAT's may rise to 150 degrees or more.
A quote from Modshack above... 150 degrees or more... now why would heat shielding help with that Zed? Hmmmm, doesn't seem to take a rocket scientist does it?

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 11:13 AM
Maybe that's why I'm struggling with it...i am only qualified for rocket science.


Iirc, what Steve is talking about there is the reason for ducting. Heat transfer through the plastic is small, but you are picking up hot air at the inlet. Shielding won't help with that.

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1368662)
Maybe that's why I'm struggling with it...i am only qualified for rocket science.


Iirc, what Steve is talking about there is the reason for ducting. Heat transfer through the plastic is small, but you are picking up hot air at the inlet. Shielding won't help with that.
that is why I asked you if you have checked the temps in the boxes at any time... if not, and no one else can chime in then it's all speculation. If one wants power off the line as well as power into higher speeds then everything has to be kept as cool as possible.

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 11:35 AM
Yes, I have. My data logs were posted, but the thread was removed after I was accused of being a z hater for posting iat temps. If I have time, I will pull them up and pm you.

Long story short, you suck in hot air. The tuning wall does not heat up on the interior even after reasonable time idling (obviously at 15 minutes plus, everything is heat soaked). Even them, I speculate that it's primarily due to hot air coming in.

Post maf tubes that were notably better insulators saw mild improvements, but not as
Much as youd expect given the extra insulation, lending credence to that theory.

Methodical4u 10-20-2011 11:55 AM
well post them up... I don't care if you're a Z hater or not personally.

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1368735)
well post them up... I don't care if you're a Z hater or not personally.
I agreed not to post any more data logs. It's not worth the trouble it brings, and I'm not gonna hassle myself to help a community that won't help itself.


My computer with all my data is still in storage, but I will pm docs when I have them out again.

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 11:59 AM
I have dragon run diff and brake temps for a bunch of cars as well if you want those.

b1adesofcha0s 10-20-2011 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1368752)
I have dragon run diff and brake temps for a bunch of cars as well if you want those.
Were you taking measurements of everyone's cars at ZDayZ? :icon17:

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 12:04 PM
Yes

b1adesofcha0s 10-20-2011 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1368769)
Yes
If I come to ZDayZ would you be able to measure the difference between my IAT's and those for someone else with G3's? Just would like to see if the heat wrap is actually doing anything.

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s (Post 1368784)
If I come to ZDayZ would you be able to measure the difference between my IAT's and those for someone else with G3's? Just would like to see if the heat wrap is actually doing anything.
You need an obd plug in unit to do that, but yeah, it's easy.

Brakes an diff are much easier. Just point an ir gun.

b1adesofcha0s 10-20-2011 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1368788)
You need an obd plug in unit to do that, but yeah, it's easy.

Brakes an diff are much easier. Just point an ir gun.
Would be cool to see.

Red__Zed 10-20-2011 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkZide (Post 1368787)
Yes, we are all complete idiots. What did we ever do before you were born and graced the ear th with your infinite wisdom? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The day you get banned is the day i buy champagne for this entire forum. You are a Z hater, period.
Methodical, this is why I'll pm the info. Hopefully will still be able to get info over to the guys that want to use it.

GZ3 10-20-2011 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkZide (Post 1368787)
Yes, we are all complete idiots. What did we ever do before you were born and graced the ear th with your infinite wisdom? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The day you get banned is the day i buy champagne for this entire forum. You are a Z hater, period.
hahaha, why are you so over protective?

Any data input is valuable input as far as am concerned, just because some people cant carry a discussion without getting defensive:rolleyes:

b1adesofcha0s 10-20-2011 12:40 PM
I think he has a stalker crush on you :rolleyes:

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.
Page 2 of 5 1 2 34 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2