Intakes... are they ALL just a scam?

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAGAWAGA

I used to believe this too, but after this thread Stillen vs. Smoky: your take on intakes im kinda confused on how intakes work.

Unless there is another factor involved in that test, I do not believe those dyno numbers. While the TS intake shroud will block a lot of radiant heat, it is still not sealed and is sucking in hot air from the engine bay. The TS intake is still an expensive glorified short ram intake most of which have been shown to have no power gains or even hurt power.

XwChriswX · 07-15-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAGAWAGA

I used to believe this too, but after this thread Stillen vs. Smoky: your take on intakes im kinda confused on how intakes work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Unless there is another factor involved in that test, I do not believe those dyno numbers. While the TS intake shroud will block a lot of radiant heat, it is still not sealed and is sucking in hot air from the engine bay. The TS intake is still an expensive glorified short ram intake most of which have been shown to have no power gains or even hurt power.

This is why I said back on Page 1 the only SRI claiming to beat the Stillens is the TS one, however there have been no independent dyno's to support this.

shadoquad · 07-15-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Correct, which is why peak power should be considered. At this point in time, the cars reading the most power regardless of mods with a set of Stillen G3 intakes still nets the most power.

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Since the G3 intakes sit in the best location of all intakes, they can intake cooler air than the Injens or stock airbox just on the location alone. Cooler air is denser, therefore it will make slightly more power in all conditions on that quality alone. But it then comes down to a few wheel horsepower between intake setups and whether a person believes pursuing those couple horsepower is worth the extra cost of the G3s or Injens over the K&N drop ins/MAF tubes.

For me, the sound, looks and peak power/torque of the G3s made it worthwhile. However, I also picked them up from a forum member for a fair amount less than a brand new set. I still believe they are the best intakes out there at the moment in my opinion if cost is not an object.

Wait, they take in cooler air than the injens? I'm not sure I buy that. They're in a better position because they're not susceptible to hydro-lock, from what I understand.

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

I have the 7AT so I don't think those mods can be applied to my Z :|

I heard that lighter pullies have a similar effect on engine response and even open up a bit of power. Most comments I have seen said that while they are not going to be as big of a difference as the flywheel/clutch combo, they are somewhat close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Wait, they take in cooler air than the injens? I'm not sure I buy that. They're in a better position because they're not susceptible to hydro-lock, from what I understand.

It is not just the temperature, but the filter location of the G3s also will net a much larger ram air effect once the car is at speed as they are placed directly behind the biggest opening on the entire front of the car. The Injens are still partially linked to the hot engine bay even thought they are way at the bottom while the G3's filter locations are completely separate.

There is probably not an appreciable difference in intakes temps between the G3 and Injen intakes, but the ram air effect of the G3's filter location will still give it the edge in my mind.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-15-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

I heard that lighter pullies have a similar effect on engine response and even open up a bit of power. Most comments I have seen said that while they are not going to be as big of a difference as the flywheel/clutch combo, they are somewhat close.

It is not just the temperature, but the filter location of the G3s also will net a much larger ram air effect once the car is at speed as they are placed directly behind the biggest opening on the entire front of the car. The Injens are still partially linked to the hot engine bay even thought they are way at the bottom while the G3's filter locations are completely separate.

There is probably not an appreciable difference in intakes temps between the G3 and Injen intakes, but the ram air effect of the G3's filter location will still give it the edge in my mind.

Yeah I've heard about the pulleys and I think it's definitely something I could do. Thanks for reminding me about them, I had actually forgotten

ChipsWithDips · 07-15-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Actually it is possible to get > 100% VE through certian rpm ranges on an NA car with because of things like intake runners tuned to resonate at specific RPMs or a true ram air intake can slightly pressurize the intake stroke. Couple that with properly tuned/sized cams, good exhaust scavenging, and overall low flow restriction and you can do it.

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsWithDips

Actually it is possible to get > 100% VE through certian rpm ranges on an NA car with because of things like intake runners tuned to resonate at specific RPMs or a true ram air intake can slightly pressurize the intake stroke. Couple that with properly tuned/sized cams, good exhaust scavenging, and overall low flow restriction and you can do it.

Hmmm, that's pretty cool! I didn't know that, it makes sense though.

V8Killer · 07-14-2011, 10:16 PM

Guys just me talking,

You want to play you gotta pay. We have all heard it before. If you want true answers on parts look for people with the same setup u want and get the numbers. I found one guy and the only difference is I have a stilled ud and he has nst. So u want real numbers do it that way, im just saying.

DLSTR · 07-15-2011, 07:21 AM

NA motors are expensive to mod for marginal gains of any meaning. A turbo based motors yields much more power when mods are done in general. None of it is cheap. My Abarth 500 here in Germany has 135 hp with my G-Tech ECU mod for about 700Euros its how above 163 with a nice boost in torque. A bigger turbo/ ECU and exhaust will get you about 210. Thats about 4000euro package from G-Tech overall for a healthy boost to 210. More could be found but the gearbox limitations begin to arise as well.

Again not cheap but turbo based motors respond better and give you more flexibility. You live with what you are given.
I am no expert just passing what Ive seen in general.
Dave in Germany

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 07:48 AM

Yeah, the Evo X responded very well to mods... much better than even the 9 did. However the interior of the car was purely cheap and the car (while very technolgically advanced) was very heavy. I have to say all in all having a car that stock runs a 13.3 and sometimes better and with the right NA mods will run down to about a 12.5 or so is perfectly fine with me. I know that would require the right exhaust, LTH's, Intake, tune and maybe a few others. I'm ok with that but ultimately it's going to depend on what intake does the best at this point... that will likely be my first mod... but perhaps I should go with the exhaust first?

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 09:30 PM

So with the Stillen G3's... does putting them on an otherwie stock Z yield the most gains? Like would I see let's just say 20 whp on a car that's stock, but if I had an exhaust I might see a little less HP because the exhaust is already more efficient.

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 09:59 PM

another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?

I believe so, but you shouldn't be intimidated by that part of the G3s. You don't need to clean the filters for 30-50,000 miles and to be honest, taking off the bumper on these cars is extremely easy. I did it in 30 minutes the first time I removed it and after a few times, can probably have the bumper off in 10-15 minutes at a decent pace.

Methodical4u · 07-16-2011, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

I believe so, but you shouldn't be intimidated by that part of the G3s. You don't need to clean the filters for 30-50,000 miles and to be honest, taking off the bumper on these cars is extremely easy. I did it in 30 minutes the first time I removed it and after a few times, can probably have the bumper off in 10-15 minutes at a decent pace.

The biggest issue with the G3's or the Injens is that most of the power gains I have seen are at the 7k rpm range... I don't run the car up there very often so another intake set-up seems like it might be more for me... I don't know where the drop-ins with post maf tubes makes it's power, but i'll have to look into it all.

Trips · 07-17-2011, 12:06 PM

Seriously how much more is this thread going to continue?
Op get what makes you happy and if with all the info here it doesn't? LEAVE IT STOCK!!! And stop beating a Dead Horse!!!

07-14-2011, 10:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
V8Killer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, NC Posts: 1,127 Drives: It Hard Till It Pops Rep Power: 18	Guys just me talking, You want to play you gotta pay. We have all heard it before. If you want true answers on parts look for people with the same setup u want and get the numbers. I found one guy and the only difference is I have a stilled ud and he has nst. So u want real numbers do it that way, im just saying. __________________ "Punch" Too much to list and a baby shot of nitrous....

07-15-2011, 07:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
DLSTR A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Süd Germany Posts: 2,462 Drives: 21Supra 2.0/22 M240i Rep Power: 21269	NA motors are expensive to mod for marginal gains of any meaning. A turbo based motors yields much more power when mods are done in general. None of it is cheap. My Abarth 500 here in Germany has 135 hp with my G-Tech ECU mod for about 700Euros its how above 163 with a nice boost in torque. A bigger turbo/ ECU and exhaust will get you about 210. Thats about 4000euro package from G-Tech overall for a healthy boost to 210. More could be found but the gearbox limitations begin to arise as well. Again not cheap but turbo based motors respond better and give you more flexibility. You live with what you are given. I am no expert just passing what Ive seen in general. Dave in Germany Last edited by DLSTR; 07-15-2011 at 07:31 AM.

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07-15-2011, 07:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 18	Yeah, the Evo X responded very well to mods... much better than even the 9 did. However the interior of the car was purely cheap and the car (while very technolgically advanced) was very heavy. I have to say all in all having a car that stock runs a 13.3 and sometimes better and with the right NA mods will run down to about a 12.5 or so is perfectly fine with me. I know that would require the right exhaust, LTH's, Intake, tune and maybe a few others. I'm ok with that but ultimately it's going to depend on what intake does the best at this point... that will likely be my first mod... but perhaps I should go with the exhaust first?

07-15-2011, 09:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 18	So with the Stillen G3's... does putting them on an otherwie stock Z yield the most gains? Like would I see let's just say 20 whp on a car that's stock, but if I had an exhaust I might see a little less HP because the exhaust is already more efficient.

07-15-2011, 09:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 18	another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?

07-17-2011, 12:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland Posts: 8,736 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	Seriously how much more is this thread going to continue? Op get what makes you happy and if with all the info here it doesn't? LEAVE IT STOCK!!! And stop beating a Dead Horse!!!