Dammit man, hold off until after I finish buying Xmas presents and ****. Don't start a group buy during the holidays. :rofl2:

Ya i can wait until January really. I am still knee deep in building an oil pump setup so I dont really have a rush for pistons.

That would make my life so much easier. My Gf's birthday is three days after Xmas, so I get hit twice. :rofl2:

And tell the rest of the class about the oil pump setup- would this be something that can handle sustained 8k rpm driving?

Its a top secret project that I am currently about 70% confident I can complete. But I will not know for sure until I start prototyping it on the new CNC. But the projects goal is to give us an oil pump solution that will be able to handle 8-9k RPM without any real concerns. But I will add one detail right now... if I do complete this, there is going to be no way around it requiring very light modification to the nose of the crankshaft. Its an easy modification, but the crankshaft will require removing. This means engine out, timing covers and chains off. You can get the crank out with the heads on and leave the pistons and rods in there... but unless youre an NA car, you might as well do the pistons and rods once youre this deep.

I will probably start posting about it in January.

Great, my "future motor build" keeps getting more and more expensive. :rofl2:

Keep building cool ****, man. One of these days I'm going to be writing you a fairly substantial check.

More expensive? Thats the wrong way to look at it... if it saves you from broken oil pumps, it will save you money in the long run! :) You cant afford to not buy it!!! lol

Yep. That's how I keep justifying spending money on this car. :rofl2:

1. phunk
2. Chuck33079
3. GaleForce
4. cosmogirl

Count me in!!

count me in as well

1. phunk
2. Chuck33079
3. GaleForce
4. cosmogirl
5. OldBoy
6. djtodd

OK looks like enough to me. Tomorrow I will contact CP and get the ball rolling and I will post back what we are looking at for ETA. If we are only short 1 or 2 people, I dont mind placing the order because I am sure they will sell before they are done making them.

1. phunk
2. Chuck33079
3. GaleForce
4. cosmogirl
5. OldBoy
6. djtodd
7. OMGWTFBBQ

Count me in (if it's not too late)!!! :D

not too late for this one!!!!!

BTW I am curious if you guys are interested in this.

I have thought about constructing pistons that would be compatible with both VHR and HR cylinder heads. This means anyone who wants to make the change immediately or down the road is clear to go and will not have to do the bottom end again.

I already discussed this with CP and the conclusions we came to was that this was most likely very possible. We have to compare the valve angles between the HR and VHR cylinder heads and do a little math... but by adding some well planned exhaust valve reliefs to the pistons we could probably have a piston for the VHR bottom end with HR or VHR heads. Some research also has to be done to determine if this will or will not change the CR between one head and the other.

I was concerned about if you guys would care for this or not. I wasnt sure if people would feel there is a compromise in the pistons design to accommodate cylinder heads that they are not running. But this would sure be a lot easier on me for stocking in the future. On top of that, I am currently leaning more towards HR heads for my build, but I am not ready to commit to them yet... but I want to start my bottom end build!

So, if you can look at 13.0:1 in VQ37 bottom end with HR heads and 14mm peak lift I am interested (planning E85 NA engine for VQ engined sports car here in Oz). Std VQ37 stroke and rod-length. Key issue is sufficient meat on the crown to allow for valve relief .... bit off topic for this thread, BUT signalling my interest.

PM me details please, very likely interested. Never too early to get that built block rolling.

You forgot me! In from day one!!

1. phunk
2. Chuck33079
3. GaleForce
4. tibal
5. cosmogirl (maybe)
6. OldBoy
7. djtodd
8. OMGWTFBBQ

I will have timeline details sorted out today!

OK I just got off the phone with CP.

So there is good news and bad news. The bad news first... my original quote no longer applies, prices have gone up. Enough that it might effect peoples decision to be in on this or not. I am not really sure why this is, I am thinking there was some sort of communication error.

This is my quoted cost, no markup (which says how much pricing has changed because in my original pricing I was making a few bucks on it):

10:1, .020 over, HD Pistons (designed for 700+ crank), $804
Heavy Duty Wrist Pin Upgrade, $54 (you want this)
Coatings: $20 per piston for dome, $20 per piston for skirt
Plus shipping and CC fees.

If you guys still want in, I will do it at a wash and show the invoice.

Quoted timeframe if we order by early next week, 4-5 weeks.

I am still in. Anyone else?

I guess I'm out if you're doing this now. Am I correct in assuming I can still get a single set of these at any time, albeit at higher cost?

Yup we can get them any time. I *might* grab a set or two extra for stock... But I am leaning more towards stocking a custom piston for hr/VHR compatibility

Good deal. Between homeowners insurance, Xmas, two birthdays and property tax, there's no way in hell I need to be dropping a grand right now on car parts I won't be using for 25k miles.

I know some people are in a hurry (maybe) to get these pistons, but I'm with Chuck. If nobody's dying to get the pistons, would it make sense to push the GB back into January?

Not speaking for the crowd, but it would definitely help me out considering the holidays (big $$$ expenses) are here and whatnot.

I,for one, won't be going to HR heads. I remember reading an article on the differences between the VHR and the HR and one of the things that they pointed out was that the HR head had "sharper" edges in the combustion chamber compared to the VHR. This, although it might not seem that big of a deal, could potentially cause hot spot in the combustion chamber... not exactly what you want in a high compression boosted engine.

Phunk, do you think you could work in a group buy for CP rods also? Maybe get a bit of a cheaper price from CP for the combo? Or free coating?

You know that is a great idea. Anyone who wants pistons is going to want rods also. The only negative to that is having to pay for both at once.

I will inquire Friday if they are open, otherwise Monday. I am going to talk about pricing with them again because I think we should get a little better.

As for holding off until after holidays, I am extremely open to that. I have so much custom work to finish for my new engine that I won't need the pistons and rods for a few months.

It's really up to you guys. I was trying to push this forward to get cosmo taken care of, but if we need to wait and he has to go solo for now, it is what it is.

We have to get to the point of solid communication with one another to come to a compromise on timing.. So speak up everyone!

1. phunk ; 100% in, any time before March.
2. Chuck33079
3. GaleForce
4. tibal
5. cosmogirl (maybe)
6. OldBoy
7. djtodd
8. OMGWTFBBQ

Listen guys I cant wait another 4 weeks for the group buy and then another 4-5 weeks for them to be built. I am sorry but really don't have a problem paying for a custom set now. Please let me know what your planning to do so I can move forward with my build and again I am sorry..
Happy Holidays

I'm in no particular hurry at the moment either. After the first of the year would work just fine for me. I have a spare engine in the garage anyway if mine does go tits up.

As for the hr/vhr question, I really don't have any realistic plans to do an hr head swap, so I'd prefer normal vhr pistons.

I don't want any of this stuff, but I'm with you. Do what you gotta do. People should jump in on YOUR buy right now.
Do what you gotta do, can't wait to see it up and running again, real tune at Z1, and awesome numbers

I would be open for a group buy myself. I haven't been on the forums much lately and this sounds great. I was looking for a set of 10:1 pistons. I already have a short block stripped with crank assembled, just need pistons, rods, plus a few other things.

I'm in no rush for this, so whenever.

Phunk, any news on a price for the pistons and rods combo?

Sorry it has been a hectic week taking delivery of a new CNC. I will get information for you about this this week!

Phunk, forgive my noobness but does this have any good gains for NA? Cause from what i saw, most of the names on the GB list is already on FI

These would be solely for a FI application due to the lowered compression ratio.

noooob question, as ive never looked into built engines before.... but is that price per piston, or for all 6 lol and whats a typical shop charge for installs on engine parts like this being the work involved

Im sorry but that's not a noob question

These pistons would cost you a little power in a NA car.

The factory compression ratio is 11:1. These pistons are 10:1. Reducing the engines natural compression ratio will reduce overall power output at any given airflow.

When people decide to upgrade their internals for more horsepower with a boosted engine, if that engine was considered a "high compression" engine in its original form, then it is common to slightly lower the compression ratio. So this is a typical procedure when doing an engine build for a NA car converted to FI.

High compression ratios are ideal for overall power and efficiency. However, once you force more air in with boost, the high compression ratio really starts to compound the pre-ignition cylinder pressures. Too much heat and pressure can cause the air-fuel mixture to self ignite early, before the spark plug sets it off. This is very bad for the engine.

So it is a balancing act. Like every choice we have to make in a performance car, there are compromises. For the sake of maximized efficiency, you want the compression ratio as high as possible. Luckily, the VQ37VHR makes lots of power with very little boost pressure. Most people will never even attempt to run as much boost as, for example, a *stock* Evo X runs. Those who go so far, would have one of the most powerful VQ's around. So, generally we do not have to lower our compression ratio nearly as much as other guys. This is great because it lets our engine be more powerful and responsive without using the boost as a crutch. Cars like EVOs and STIs drive rather poorly in comparison due to having extremely low natural power output.

Sorry if I went overboard and touched on things you already know. Just covering all bases!

Prices quoted will be for a full set of 6, including wrist pins and piston rings.

Shop charges to install the pistons is a difficult conversation to have quickly. It is rather uncommon to install just a set of pistons. Changing pistons requires going as deep as you can into the engine, and removing literally every last component. Once this far, it is typical to do a full build-up on the engine, and upgrade every other known weak-link.

An engine build for a VQ probably costs consumers anywhere from $4,000 - $8,000 by the time it is all done. Possibly even more in many cases. Or a lot more if a turbo system and accessories are on the same invoice.

Thank you for your clarification and additional informations Phunk :tiphat: a little overboard wouldn't hurt :tup:

Can I still get in on this?