Blown Motor, Engine Rebuild/Replacement.

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

I did say why there are plenty of guys running no dampers with NO issues. My point return u dont need them but hey hug those nuts bro just dont tell people they need to spend money on **** with little to no gains

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Easy there dude. It was just a question. I still have never seen any parts you have designed for this community. So when you say a person who has contributed is motivated by selling product, you need to back up a statement like that.

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 01:35 PM

Alright guys lets not have this thread Locked so that others may use this as a guide...

1slow370 · 02-06-2014, 01:40 PM

Ok back on topic yeah cosmo ur gonna need a few pieces to get that kit to work both companies sell them.

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phunk · 02-06-2014, 01:42 PM

I have sold more fuel rails for the VQ than any manufacturer, guaranteed. Several hundreds of sets. I have more user and tuner feedback than anyone on the matter.

No engine NEEDS dampers. But there are side effects to removing, and the VQ is very sensitive to it. You run into lean spots than cannot be tuned out.

Many DE cars were suffering adverse side effects from removing them, and customers REQUESTED that we make a new rail with dampers. We did as requested, and even offered a several month long exchange program to swap out rails for customers experiencing the side effects. We gave out TONS of rails at hardly over our cost of time and material in exchange for the old rails back to mostly destroy to keep the used fuel rail market from flooding and halting our normal sales.

There are long threads on the issue on the 350z forum, including a member showing datalogs going from no dampers, to 1, to 2, and eventually to 3.

My personal 370z running the a prototype fuel system configuration where I removed just 1 of the 3 dampers already developed a lean hesitation at 3100rpm.

Not all cars will experience it on a level that is noticeable to the driver. Datalogs will show it on any car with them removed. I have never found the ryhme or reason that determines which cars suffer and which dont. We had customers experience it with different regulators, different pumps, and all various injectors.

We had so many customers that DID experience, that it was foolish to continue production of rails that do not have them, when we can just simply prevent the problem from occurring for everyone.

The problem will easily be brushed off by many as a tuning quirk or side effect of a highly modified vehicle. But it is actually completely correctable.

Personally, I dont care one way or another which system cosmo buys. SOMEONE is going to buy this used GTM system, which is one less sale of my system. So... makes no difference who buys it. I actually sort of hope cosmo does... cause he seems like the type that will speak his mind. Now that I am calling attention to the side effects he is going to see, he can simply see them for himself, and later on I will just sell him some rails that can swap right in and fix the problem.

Its a win for all of us!

~2400rpm, ~3100rpm : Pay attention to how the car drives at part throttle light acceleration through these RPM ranges after you install the system.

SharpByCoop · 02-09-2014, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

Now that I am calling attention to the side effects he is going to see, he can simply see them for himself, and later on I will just sell him some rails that can swap right in and fix the problem.

Its a win for all of us!

~2400rpm, ~3100rpm : Pay attention to how the car drives at part throttle light acceleration through these RPM ranges after you install the system.

Complete speculation on your part. I say this because Mike Botti, MY tuner, tweaked my car with such incredible low and midrange power, that there was absolutely no lean spot or hesitation. No dampeners and no problems. Either that or this lean spot is a myth on the VVEL.

I've driven cars with weak spots in the powerband, yes. My G37 VVEL, with the GTM return kit wasn't even close to having a tuning issue.

I just couldn't let you dismiss a proven build with your own sales hype. I don't doubt the dampeners are a good idea. However, I'd found, and GTM delivered a product which worked famously. One ride in my car and you would have been shrugging in agreement. That is all.

I think cosmogirl has a very adequate system pending. For those who want 600whp+ a better fuel rail system is a must. That would be CJM and GTM. Both proven.

Coop

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 01:56 PM

Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmogirl

Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol

If the price is right, is there a way to retrofit a damper onto the GTM rails?

phunk · 02-06-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

If the price is right, is there a way to retrofit a damper onto the GTM rails?

We tried to find an easy way to do that with our previous rails rather than having to make new ones. We found some aftermarket dampers that were large and clunky, had to run remote hoses to them. Overall it was messy. It forced us to have to create a masterpiece.

G37sHKS · 02-06-2014, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

We tried to find an easy way to do that with our previous rails rather than having to make new ones. We found some aftermarket dampers that were large and clunky, had to run remote hoses to them. Overall it was messy. It forced us to have to create a masterpiece.

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 03:02 PM

Just a follow up, I spoke with Charles at cjm and he comfirmed my stock fuel rails would be fine for my specific power goals and my aeromotive 340 fuel pump. To me that shows a lot because he did not push his fuel system at all and was honest about what he knows to be true with his years of experience..

elperuano · 02-06-2014, 03:56 PM

Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit. Looking forward to see how the VSR block holds up!

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit.

By choice or necessity?

elperuano · 02-06-2014, 06:55 PM

Both? I've been getting info and started to collect parts to go built for awhile now.

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 07:18 PM

Did yours pop?

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 07:40 PM

I believe he is on a stock block..

02-06-2014, 01:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 20	Alright guys lets not have this thread Locked so that others may use this as a guide... Chuck33079 likes this.

02-06-2014, 01:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Ok back on topic yeah cosmo ur gonna need a few pieces to get that kit to work both companies sell them. Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

02-06-2014, 01:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,669 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974724	I have sold more fuel rails for the VQ than any manufacturer, guaranteed. Several hundreds of sets. I have more user and tuner feedback than anyone on the matter. No engine NEEDS dampers. But there are side effects to removing, and the VQ is very sensitive to it. You run into lean spots than cannot be tuned out. Many DE cars were suffering adverse side effects from removing them, and customers REQUESTED that we make a new rail with dampers. We did as requested, and even offered a several month long exchange program to swap out rails for customers experiencing the side effects. We gave out TONS of rails at hardly over our cost of time and material in exchange for the old rails back to mostly destroy to keep the used fuel rail market from flooding and halting our normal sales. There are long threads on the issue on the 350z forum, including a member showing datalogs going from no dampers, to 1, to 2, and eventually to 3. My personal 370z running the a prototype fuel system configuration where I removed just 1 of the 3 dampers already developed a lean hesitation at 3100rpm. Not all cars will experience it on a level that is noticeable to the driver. Datalogs will show it on any car with them removed. I have never found the ryhme or reason that determines which cars suffer and which dont. We had customers experience it with different regulators, different pumps, and all various injectors. We had so many customers that DID experience, that it was foolish to continue production of rails that do not have them, when we can just simply prevent the problem from occurring for everyone. The problem will easily be brushed off by many as a tuning quirk or side effect of a highly modified vehicle. But it is actually completely correctable. Personally, I dont care one way or another which system cosmo buys. SOMEONE is going to buy this used GTM system, which is one less sale of my system. So... makes no difference who buys it. I actually sort of hope cosmo does... cause he seems like the type that will speak his mind. Now that I am calling attention to the side effects he is going to see, he can simply see them for himself, and later on I will just sell him some rails that can swap right in and fix the problem. Its a win for all of us! ~2400rpm, ~3100rpm : Pay attention to how the car drives at part throttle light acceleration through these RPM ranges after you install the system. esfourteen, GaleForce, elperuano and 3 others like this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph Last edited by phunk; 02-06-2014 at 07:06 PM.

02-06-2014, 01:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 20	Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol esfourteen and elperuano like this.

02-06-2014, 03:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 20	Just a follow up, I spoke with Charles at cjm and he comfirmed my stock fuel rails would be fine for my specific power goals and my aeromotive 340 fuel pump. To me that shows a lot because he did not push his fuel system at all and was honest about what he knows to be true with his years of experience.. OMGWTFBBQ, Nixlimited, GaleForce and 3 others like this.

02-06-2014, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit. Looking forward to see how the VSR block holds up! COSMO likes this.

02-06-2014, 06:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Both? I've been getting info and started to collect parts to go built for awhile now.

02-06-2014, 07:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Did yours pop? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

02-06-2014, 07:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 20	I believe he is on a stock block..

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