And besides, a smaller water to air intercooler would have less of a pressure drop accross it meaning you could utilize more boost rather than having it wasted accross a large intercooler.

How easy are those to upgrade Kyle later on if we become boost thirsty and start swapping out pullies :D ?

The internal intercooler is pretty much maxed out with its size and I think you would have a hard time exceeding its capabilities. If you want to run a larger heat exchanger out front that would be a pretty easy modification to make later on down the road.

Thanks Kyle!
No I am mainly conserned about proformance! Im not in it for looks! Im in it for speed! Cant wait to get this sc to the track!
I did not know how it works but now I do
I just thought since turbos benifit from large intercoolers that the sc might as well but now I know! I can't wait for the arrival of this bad boy!

New year update!!!
 

Progress is coming along very well. We received some of the castings back from the casting house this week and next week they will go into the machine shop for finishing. From there we will install them on the test cars and will begin tuning. A little bit of cool information that I have found out today. The casting house who is making our intake manifold and some of the other components also makes aluminum heads for Ford, racing speed boats and numerous other forms of race vehicles. They do some amazing work and they're located in USA!

Also, we have some information on some of the options that we will be offering for the VQ37:

The STILLEN supercharger kit will have 3 stages.

Option 1) Tuner kit...All the hardware and equipment minus the fuel management. This kit should be ready in about two months or so. Look for it around the end of February beginning of March.

Option 2) CARB legal kit. This kit will be 50 state legal, yes it won't have as much power as the other stages but it is street legal!!! More than likely this kit will be running around 6 psi. The release of this kit greatly revolves around the amount of time it takes CARB to grant us a test date and review our results. I can't give a solid ETA on this because it really is up to CARB.

Option 3) Race kit...This will be a pre-tuned race kit that will not come with any warranty and will not be street legal but it will be a bolt in kit for the guys looking for a bit more power but don't want to bother with figuring out their own tuning. This kit will be developed along side the Tuner kit so look for it to be released around the beginning of March.

I'll put my order in RIGHT NOW for stage 3. Car will never be used for the street and never ever on the HWY ;)

Kidding..thanks for the update buddy, very excited to see more updates.

Best of luck!

So the stage 1 will have more power than the stage 2? What HP range will stage 1 be looking at without fuel management? Does stage 2 include fuel management? Is tuning included in 1 & 2 stages? And Im assuming IC for all stages?

6PSI sounds reasonable and safe!

And, if it's not enough, I'm guessing it wouldn't be a big deal to raise it a notch or two, once the kit's installed...I mean, installation is the hard part (assuming retunes are easy, right?)


My level of interest in this drops once 91octane is exceeded. I don't want to have to hunt for the 93octane pumps in my area, and, I'm not about to buy additives...

Don't focus too much on the different stages. I just through those together so they may change down the line. For now, let's call them Tuner kit, CARB kit, and race kit? I will go back and change my post to reflect the different names

The Tuner kit will come with no fuel management at all. That will be up to the tuner and the customer. We will offer different pullies to support different levels of boost but there will not be any tuning included in the kit.

The CARB kit will be a complete kit with locked down fuel management and everything needed to complete the installation.

The Race kit will also be a complete kit with fuel management however it will not carry any warranties and will not be CARB legal.

Yes and no...You are correct, swapping out the pulley is pretty easy as well as getting a tune to compensate for the increase in boost. Those are both pretty easy steps.

However, then the kit will lose its warranty will not be street legal anymore...

Can it be done relatively easily? The answer is yes.

Will it retain legality and warranty? That answer is no.

Understandably! I'm just saying that if someone gets the Stage 2 Kit, then decides that's not enough and wants to toss the warranty, they have the option without scrapping the investment.

That's a good thing... :)

Sounds good, Kyle. Can't wait to see pics of the kit and dyno numbers. When do you expect to release that info?

I dunno i'm pretty confused on this whole thing. since they didn't release the trim they may be using a Vortech VTS unit especially considering the new manifold, water to air intercooler, lack of photos and general reluctance to leak info. If it is it all makes sense because in their shoes considering the amount of negative backlash against the 350z roots kit, i would wait until all the power figures where in before posting up the final decision. my guess is the move to set the release date back into march is just in case the vts doesn't pan out and a new kit designed around the centrifugal has to be made.

the main points for this argument are the new manifold especially considering GTM pulled it off easily with the stock one. As for the hood concerns, the 350z kit was made utilizing the stock lower intake manifold so the height was increased. if they remade that piece to make the unit sit lower it could be possible to make it all fit. besides using a positive displacement blower and making it all work would allow stillen to save face on the shortcomings of the 350z unit.

VTS Twin-Screw Supercharger Systems Featuring Lysholm Technology | Vortech Superchargers

Great points. I was thinking about this when Kyle started releasing info,and asked whether they were using a centrifugal or twin-screw either here or on MyG37. However, I wasn't answered so I just kinda forgot about it. Actually, I wouldn't mind if Stillen went with the twin-screw and GTM went with the centrifugal so that there would be more variety between the two kits. Can't wait to see the finished pics and ESPECIALLY the dyno numbers to see how these two projects compare. Props to both Stillen and GTM.:tup:

1slow370 does make some excellent points. I have only seen air to water intercoolers for positive displacement superchargers. Vortech does have aftercoolers that are air to water, buy they are bulky and won't fit. Redesigning a manifold is definitely not necessary for a centrifugal blower.

Using a positive displacement supercharger on a VQ37VHR is not out of the question:
http://myg37.com/forums/picture-shar...rom-japan.html

there are still hurdles on that one if u read farther into it the only information they have on that blower is that it was a blitz prototype and no one even knows if it runs.

Edit: not to mention it is japan only but it does show the fitment can work, as the vts and other twinscrews on the market are longer but shorter and have axial inlets on them so no need for the funny hood clearance intake neck thing.

I wonder what 6psi will do to our Z's hp/tq wise?

6psi = 475whp from what I've been reading.

What I dont understand is one thing....if we can make 6-8psi EASILY on a supercharger and that is the limit of the stock block, what the hell is the point of getting a turbo charger at this point. Unless you build the block, then you aren't going to make any more power than any supercharger will.

To be honest with you guys, I think a TT setup is pointless unless you're going for 700whp+ and for that you will definitely need a built motor.

Also find it really funny that everyone who is technically inclined and have lots of driving experience aren't considering a TT and are aiming for 450-500whp, while the folks who are more into aesthetics need 600whp+ TT kits for some reason. I'm not sure they know how unusable that amount of power is... I mean not that I dont think " I spin tires in 4th" isnt cool.

For me personally, I'm not really concerned with peak HP that much. I'm more interested in a solid increase in usable low-end and mid-range torque and HP that I'll see all the time as opposed to peak numbers high in the RPM range that I'll rarely get to in a daily driven street car.

6-8 psi through a good effiecent, intercooled twin screw will be more than enough power and torque for most and don't even think of hitting a roadcoarse with that level of power with out a decent brake upgrade. and on the bright side if properly done the car will drive as if the power is all motor. some people like the feeling of boost coming on and building up that turbos and centrifugals give you but personally when i put my foot to the floor i want it to be there before the pedal hits the floor. besides theres nothing like a not having to drop the clutch to smoke em.

Edit: also when u pop the hood to impress the buds u can point and go look at that instead of having to carry around a huge freakin mirror or an inspection camera to point out the paint peeling off your framerails from the snails.

this is the key in my opinion!!!

We manufacture a lot of parts for the ford gt supercars and they regularly twin turbo those cars and reach horsepower levels in excess of 1,000 horsepower. One guy just got the twin turbo kit installed on his get and he put it best...1000 horsepower is kinda like having an 18 inch member. Sure it's cool to brag about but you can't really use all of it!

One thing to consider is over all performance and what you plan on doing with the car. I plan on writing a detailed explanation of what I mean by that tomorrow.

Two questions:
1. Can you answer whether you're going with a centrifugal or twin-screw?
2. Does mid-range torque = girth?

Kyle,

Can you please tell us the estimated hp and tq gains at the low range...( under 4000 rpm)?

Many vortech systems for the 350z had VERY little gains in that range. Usually under 20 hp/tq were gained.

Thanks,
John

I knew a guy that just did a whipple blower upgrade on his GT40 and he was pushing 850-900 so what the hell is the point?

We will be using the centrifugal Vortech supercharger. We have been a Vortech distributor for many years now and we have also engineered out own kits in the past with Vortech units on vehicle's like the CLK430 and the Nissan Maxima. Both of which offered amazing low end torque due to the custom trims and modifications we made during testing and development.

Right now that question is not possible to answer but I want to acknowledge it so you don't think I'm ignoring you or skipping over it.

One of the great things about Vortech superchargers is that we can adjust different trims on the wheels which will greatly alter horsepower potential and low end torque. Until we come up with our final trim it is impossible for us to definitively answer what we expect. We really just need to do the testing.

What I can tell you, is that we are all racers at STILLEN so we all want immediate throttle response. I know for a fact that although peak horsepower numbers are always good, improving acceleration is always a big goal of ours.

Ford GT supercars are a little different than your standard street car. They are geared from the factory to reach speeds in excess of 250 MPH. A lot of owner's of the Ford GT supercars take their vehicle's to standing mile events or events like the Silver State Classic and Bonneville where huge horsepower is necessary. However, the guys who actively track their cars on circuits, generally stick with the factory or Whipple supercharger due to the fantastic amount of torque those cars produce.

Take for example our Ford GT. It only makes about 650 horsepower but we regularly race it in targa rally races in new Zealand. However, we altered the gear ratio so that we could actually use 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on the rallies. Before changing the gear ratio, we were stuck with just 2nd and 3rd, mainly 2nd though.

So to answer your question...What's the point?

It all depends on what YOU want. Again, I will write a more comprehensive explanation of what I mean by that tomorrow.

thanx for calling that one out for sure kyle now that the big question is out of the way and my fat f/i check came in time to go to my guy and see if i can get my hands on an axial kb2.6 or 2.8h unit and begin the parts acrual process. Good luck with the centrifugal kit and i'll be interested to watch the GTM vs. Stillen shootout that is sure to ensue.

wasn't trying to contest the massive horsepower demands of gt40 owners just saying that when you can get nearly the same numbers both ways, why not retain the stock responsiveness as well as it is easier to tune when the boost curve and power delivery are nearly identical stock just at higher levels.

In my opinion...It comes down to two things...Cost and purpose.

What do you plan on doing with the car and how much do you want to spend?

A whipple upgrade costs around 10K or so on those cars. A twin turbo upgrade costs between 25-35K depending on what you add or spec out on your build.

I personally like the responsiveness and performance of the superchargers, I've gone for a ride in a twin turbo GT and it was amazingly fast after 4,000 RPM...however, below that it was really disappointing.

But, the twin turbo kits look like works of art on those cars! It really just comes down to what do you want, and how do you want to do it and how much are you willing to spend.

+1 rep just for being able to say that :eek:

pssh it's a friggen GT40 it better have at LEAST 600

Finally some anwsers, I'm glad to hear what kind of S/C stillen is making & if 6psi is suppost to make around 450-475hp it will be perfect for my needs. I just hope this kit is going to be reliable, I don't want to worry about something breaking one day while I'm driving.

usually the worst thing that happens is a broken belt so the style of belt and ease of changing that are usually what you worry about. it's self oiling so besides keeping coolant in the intercooler there isn't much to worry about since it ships tuned.

Thanks for the clarifications, Kyle. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm very pleased that Stillen emphasizes solid low-end and midrange gains over peak. Usually, centrifugal systems show great peak hp gains but are mediocre down low, so I'm excited to see how you solve that issue.

Looking forward to this. 450 whp with some useable low end grunt will be fantastic for this car.

Considering a full twin-turbo system on our VQ is putting out 442 whp at 6 psi, I doubt the peak numbers for these supercharger systems will be that high unless they are running considerably higher boost.

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/l...ograph0002.jpg

That is a VERY conservative tune and should be easily matched with supercharged system that is pushed a little plus a few exhaust mods.

To clarify, I was referring to the CARB-legal Stage 2 SC which of course would also have a conservative tune and run about 6 lbs. of boost. My prediction for the kit in that form is about 410-420 to the wheels. A Stage 3 running higher boost with a smaller pulley, more aggressive tuning, etc. who knows?

Why are we redesigning the intake manifold
 

Quite a few people have asked why we have engineered a new intake manifold if we’re running a centrifugal supercharger, here are a few of those reasons.

Intercooler installation- Our intercooler is actually incorporated into the intake manifold. This dramatically decreases the intake air temperatures right before the engine receives the air. On the 350Z we found that the intercooler removed over 100 degrees immediately before the air entered the engine. There are other intercooler styles available such as the water boxes that Vortech offers that are before the throttle body. Unfortunately on the VQ37 this would have significantly increased the cost to have two intercoolers and all of the associated plumbing and just trying to make them fit would have been a major issue. Additionally, there is a lot of residual heat inside of an engine bay. Heat coming off of exhaust manifolds, the engine block, valve covers and more. Running two pipes across the top of all of this heat would only cause the air to re-heat inside the pipe prior to going into the engine. By cooling the air in the manifold immediately prior to its introduction into the engine we are getting the air cooled off as much as possible.

Equal pressurization- Yes, it would have been possible to simply use a Y-pipe design coming off the supercharger that went into the throttle body. But, the problem with that is the different length tubes would cause an unequal amount of air entering the intake manifold on each side. Imagine a centrifugal supercharger mounted behind the headlight on either side of the vehicle, On the supercharger side the air only has to travel a foot or two feet to one throttle body but on the opposite side, the air has to travel three feet across the front of the core support then another two feet back to the throttle body. This differential in distance means that one side of the plenum is seeing boost well before the other side which means uneven air flow and pressure. This could cause issues with tuning, power delivery, and could even cause additional turbulence inside the intake pipes. If both throttle bodies are open and one is receiving forced air but the other is still requiring the engine to be sucking air this will cause a large amount of turbulence inside the intake manifold. By equalizing the length of pipe that the air has to travel through, the engine will receive forced air in the intake manifold equally through both throttle bodies, thus reducing any turbulence.

Equal air distribution- It is very important to ensure that the air PRESSURE is equal prior to going into the manifold but it is even more important that the air is distributed evenly to each cylinder. The factory intake manifold has a very aggressive slope towards the front of the manifold. Combine that with the fact that the throttle bodies are aimed rearward, this could cause the front two cylinders to not get enough air thus causing the two front cylinders to run rich. By running rich and having more fuel than necessary in those cylinders it is actually hurting power and performance. By redesigning the intake manifold we are able to supply each cylinder with an equal volume of air which allows each cylinder to produce the most power possible and to work at its maximum level of efficiency.

Longer Runners- One of the other designs that was incorporated into the design of the intake manifold was a larger intake runner. By lengthening the intake runners we are able to increase torque which will help greatly with acceleration.

That explains a lot, Kyle. Sounds like a really unique way to handle the difficulties of working with dual throttle bodies. Thanks.