Nood questions needing your expertise (supercharger on a A/T)

Noc · 05-27-2011, 12:02 PM

No i did no make any mistakes, i chose the a/t cause i have little to no experience in driving a stick and i am not willing to make a brand new car my testing tool.

Anyways, what do you guys think of getting a supercharger on an a/t transmission? What are the drawbacks or down side comparing to a manual trans?

My z is mostly for daily driving and occasionally some frendly racing on a abandonned strip close to home. I think a lil boost will make it more enjoyable.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

wstar · 05-27-2011, 01:24 PM

I opted to skip FI on my 7AT, at least for now. I might revisit that decision in another year or so.

There have been reports of failures from the overdrive gears' (5/6/7) valve bodies not being strong enough to handle a solid SC setup. A few people have successful FI+7AT setups so far, but it's hard to judge the meaning of that over the internet, you don't really know for sure how they're driving the car in terms of stress, and nobody knows the long term fallout yet. They say that using UpRev to increase the line pressure to reduce the shift times removes some of this stress, and that may be at least some of the difference between the setups that are surviving vs not. I'd definitely add a transmission fluid cooler, too.

There was talk of GTM doing some valve body upgrades to the 7AT to handle serious FI applications, but it may be several more months before they get this completed, and it's probably a pretty decent additional overhead in cost, build complexity, and wait times.

Both paths are viable, it's really a matter of weighing the evidence (search these forums for related threads) and your personal financial/driving/longevity/headache tradeoffs and preferences. The car is incredibly fun to drive and a good performer even without FI though. Just doing boltons and tuning can keep you happy for a long time to come, IMHO.

dixon cider · 05-27-2011, 01:57 PM

There are a lot of good discussions right here under the forced induction tab. All ya gotta do is look. That's how I learned.

geohartanto · 06-04-2011, 12:21 PM

i have the stillen SC kit on my automatic 370z w/390whp , i guess the only problem is that my guy told me that the transmission will break much faster and ill have to take another 2k out of my pocket for a new one.

other than that ive had it for about 3 months now, i go crazy with it and it is fine

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:07 PM

I was doing some digging today, figured out a few basic things I didn't realize before that might be relevant to people doing FI + 7AT builds:

1) Our 7AT transmission (Nissan Part# RE7R01A) is actually made by Jatco. The Jatco part # is JR710E. Searching for that can turn up some technical manuals available, etc.

2) Jatco makes this transmission in two versions: JR710E and JR711E. The 710 model is rated for 400 Nm (~295 ft-lbs), and the JR711E is rated for 600 Nm (~443 ft-lbs).

As best I can tell, they would be "compatible" with just different internals. I wonder which version we have?

Most bolt-on modded cars aren't pushing more than about 250 ft-lbs at the rear wheels, so the JR710E could conceivably be the version Nissan uses for our cars. I also wonder if anyone sells a conversion kit just to replace the JR710E internals with JR711E-rating ones. Some oddball japanese google results I've seen seem to indicate the 370Z and G37 get the JR710E version and the FX50/QX56 vehicles get the JR711E version...

Anyone fluent in Japanese want to call up Jatco and dig around for more info?

For reference, here's a jp wiki page on this transmission, translated by Google: JATCO JR710E/JR711E.

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:09 PM

A translated forum post seems to confirm: forum post re 710 vs 711

docaam · 06-04-2011, 02:10 PM

so how about changing FX gear with Z?

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docaam

so how about changing FX gear with Z?

It's possible, if you could find a wrecked late-model FX with a transmission in good quality, maybe a salvage yard would let you have it relatively cheap. I don't have any solid info on compatibility though. It's probably very likely to install compatibly (same mounts, same lines and electrics hookups), but I wonder if the TCM (the mini-ECU on the transmission itself) identifies the transmission to the ECU differently and causes an issue there?

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:15 PM

IMHO, the most exciting find would be if Jatco sells a parts kit for all the parts that are different between the two (probably clutches, valve bodies, etc, maybe as a rebuild kit?). It would be like a factory upgrade kit. I wonder if GTM has already looked this stuff up while researching 7AT valve body upgrades.

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:19 PM

More info found: baidu has a copy of an SAE technical paper on the development of the JR710E/JR711E and comparisons to the operation of their earlier 5AT: SAE 2009-01-0512

docaam · 06-04-2011, 02:23 PM

I know a Japanese guy here in dubai working for nissan in marketing, maybe will ask him to dig into it from Japan

docaam · 06-04-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

More info found: baidu has a copy of an SAE technical paper on the development of the JR710E/JR711E and comparisons to the operation of their earlier 5AT: SAE 2009-01-0512

thats an interesting read, tel numbers are of USA there?

wstar · 06-04-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docaam

thats an interesting read, tel numbers are of USA there?

The tel numbers there are for SAE, which is just a standards body. Jatco phone numbers can be found on their website: JATCO

Ambient · 06-04-2011, 02:37 PM

GTM has a automatic trans kits just for withstanding the abuse and power from a FI either from a turbo.

If you want to get the most out of your 370 with forced induction knowing that you have all the supporting mods to run it smoothly goes a long way in knowing what your car can handle.

toner123 · 06-04-2011, 03:27 PM

great find btw. I just spoke to my buddy who is a tranny tech and he said that if you give them a call they might have internals from anouther tranny they use that can handle the power. He said it is not verry uncommon for them to use the same type of mount system for the internals on other trannys they make for other vehicals. Just a idea and I don't know much about AT trans but hell anything is worth a shot. So in other words if they make a tranny for lets say a vette that can hanle 400 tq there is a possibility the internals for that tranny will work in the nissan 7at tranny. That is just a example and I think I understood him right.

05-27-2011, 12:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Noc Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Posts: 18 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 15	Nood questions needing your expertise (supercharger on a A/T) No i did no make any mistakes, i chose the a/t cause i have little to no experience in driving a stick and i am not willing to make a brand new car my testing tool. Anyways, what do you guys think of getting a supercharger on an a/t transmission? What are the drawbacks or down side comparing to a manual trans? My z is mostly for daily driving and occasionally some frendly racing on a abandonned strip close to home. I think a lil boost will make it more enjoyable. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

05-27-2011, 01:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	I opted to skip FI on my 7AT, at least for now. I might revisit that decision in another year or so. There have been reports of failures from the overdrive gears' (5/6/7) valve bodies not being strong enough to handle a solid SC setup. A few people have successful FI+7AT setups so far, but it's hard to judge the meaning of that over the internet, you don't really know for sure how they're driving the car in terms of stress, and nobody knows the long term fallout yet. They say that using UpRev to increase the line pressure to reduce the shift times removes some of this stress, and that may be at least some of the difference between the setups that are surviving vs not. I'd definitely add a transmission fluid cooler, too. There was talk of GTM doing some valve body upgrades to the 7AT to handle serious FI applications, but it may be several more months before they get this completed, and it's probably a pretty decent additional overhead in cost, build complexity, and wait times. Both paths are viable, it's really a matter of weighing the evidence (search these forums for related threads) and your personal financial/driving/longevity/headache tradeoffs and preferences. The car is incredibly fun to drive and a good performer even without FI though. Just doing boltons and tuning can keep you happy for a long time to come, IMHO. Jordo!, ANMVQ and Felix 808 like this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-27-2011, 01:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
dixon cider A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: STL Posts: 6,034 Drives: ONE BAD AZZ VERT Rep Power: 30	There are a lot of good discussions right here under the forced induction tab. All ya gotta do is look. That's how I learned. __________________ GTM INVIDIA MRWorks (RIP) Snow Performance Giken KW Hotchkis SRP "Remember, when all else fails, don't forget to tongue punch the brown starfish"-dixon Dixon Cider's Roadster Build

06-04-2011, 02:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	I was doing some digging today, figured out a few basic things I didn't realize before that might be relevant to people doing FI + 7AT builds: 1) Our 7AT transmission (Nissan Part# RE7R01A) is actually made by Jatco. The Jatco part # is JR710E. Searching for that can turn up some technical manuals available, etc. 2) Jatco makes this transmission in two versions: JR710E and JR711E. The 710 model is rated for 400 Nm (~295 ft-lbs), and the JR711E is rated for 600 Nm (~443 ft-lbs). As best I can tell, they would be "compatible" with just different internals. I wonder which version we have? Most bolt-on modded cars aren't pushing more than about 250 ft-lbs at the rear wheels, so the JR710E could conceivably be the version Nissan uses for our cars. I also wonder if anyone sells a conversion kit just to replace the JR710E internals with JR711E-rating ones. Some oddball japanese google results I've seen seem to indicate the 370Z and G37 get the JR710E version and the FX50/QX56 vehicles get the JR711E version... Anyone fluent in Japanese want to call up Jatco and dig around for more info? For reference, here's a jp wiki page on this transmission, translated by Google: JATCO JR710E/JR711E. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-04-2011, 02:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	A translated forum post seems to confirm: forum post re 710 vs 711 __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-04-2011, 12:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
geohartanto Base Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Boston Posts: 45 Drives: 370z Stillen SC Rep Power: 15	i have the stillen SC kit on my automatic 370z w/390whp , i guess the only problem is that my guy told me that the transmission will break much faster and ill have to take another 2k out of my pocket for a new one. other than that ive had it for about 3 months now, i go crazy with it and it is fine

06-04-2011, 02:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
docaam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 2,532 Drives: Z34/240z/Hakosuka Rep Power: 29	so how about changing FX gear with Z? __________________ Old 370Z SOLD but not forgotten 370Z 40th, G37s, S30 RBZ, Hakosuka Skyline

06-04-2011, 02:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	IMHO, the most exciting find would be if Jatco sells a parts kit for all the parts that are different between the two (probably clutches, valve bodies, etc, maybe as a rebuild kit?). It would be like a factory upgrade kit. I wonder if GTM has already looked this stuff up while researching 7AT valve body upgrades. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-04-2011, 02:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	More info found: baidu has a copy of an SAE technical paper on the development of the JR710E/JR711E and comparisons to the operation of their earlier 5AT: SAE 2009-01-0512 __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-04-2011, 02:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
docaam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 2,532 Drives: Z34/240z/Hakosuka Rep Power: 29	I know a Japanese guy here in dubai working for nissan in marketing, maybe will ask him to dig into it from Japan __________________ Old 370Z SOLD but not forgotten 370Z 40th, G37s, S30 RBZ, Hakosuka Skyline

06-04-2011, 02:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ambient Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: WV Posts: 69 Drives: 10 Cadillac CTS-V Rep Power: 16	GTM has a automatic trans kits just for withstanding the abuse and power from a FI either from a turbo. If you want to get the most out of your 370 with forced induction knowing that you have all the supporting mods to run it smoothly goes a long way in knowing what your car can handle.

06-04-2011, 03:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
toner123 Track Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: chesapeake va Age: 40 Posts: 823 Drives: TT 370z Touring/SP Rep Power: 17	great find btw. I just spoke to my buddy who is a tranny tech and he said that if you give them a call they might have internals from anouther tranny they use that can handle the power. He said it is not verry uncommon for them to use the same type of mount system for the internals on other trannys they make for other vehicals. Just a idea and I don't know much about AT trans but hell anything is worth a shot. So in other words if they make a tranny for lets say a vette that can hanle 400 tq there is a possibility the internals for that tranny will work in the nissan 7at tranny. That is just a example and I think I understood him right.

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