I forgot to mention, I took the car out for an hour drive last night... my first time really getting to boost the car...boosted quite a bit...put a smile on my face quite a bit :)

tell me more? :yum:

oh, and btw, AMAZING numbers on such low boost! <3

Well, I removed the plastic undertray and fender liners to see if that would aid the oil cooler into getting rid of the hot air stuffed in the engine bay. After doing 3 back to back pulls, oils temps only hit 240. I went and gave a friend a ride and he said it felt faster than my G35 (it trapped 116mph). I went home with a smile on my face.:icon17:

What size is your cooler?

Only 240? Dude that's really high. Even when I had my 25row it never got anywhere near that, how hot was it ou where you are when you did those pulls? You should switch to a 34row and what a difference did it make for me.

Setrab 25-row.
I say only 240 (it was 75 last night) becasue I've seen 250 (92 during the day) not boosting at all on a 7 minute drive. I'm honestly not sure if a 34-row will fit. Shawn is going to relocate the oil cooler. That SHOULD fix the problem. If not, I'll see if I can fit a 34-row somewhere in there.

I have a 34 row with my big intercooler, it should fit for you. But yeah your engine shouldn't be running that hot, you can damage the head like that. Did you guys mess with your coolant system?

240 is high man, should be no more than 220 at most.

240+ is fine with good oil.

You guys are nuts if you think 240 is fine.

What are your thoughts on turbo'ing the VQ37 compared to the VQ35? Not the power/speed differences, but the power delivery? Drivability? response?

You ever look at optimal ranges for most modern oils?

ryan, i do feel being that the fans are in front possibly the shroud is hurting more than helping you. I would think about putting on just regular round fans without the shroud. Sorry if i miss read but are your new mafs in and have they been tune with them? sorry bro 240 is no good :)

As an overall i glad to see different builds... i will be back into my single turbo by the end of the year. Congrats again, but be prepared as Billy want me to take his tt car to the track. Ima own 1/4 times for n/a and tt hahahaha


yea so i just looked at the pics and no shroud...disregard my idea above... i have been working too much

Go with a 34R cooler. Especially where you live. Couldn't hurt.

Thank you 240 is not good. 34row where u live ist a must.

Our heads run at about 250F under normal circumstances. You won't be damaging them by running 240* oil temps.

I was refering the head issue getting damaged because he said the motor temp was one dot away from the max to the far right. Engine over heating will destroy those heads.

Those are really good results, full boost by 3-4krpm! 430whp!

Got Ryan's car back in today, moved the oil cooler to the front and made a shroud to direct air into it through the rather small grill openings in the bumper. Pulled the turbo and wrapped the blanket tighter, completely consealing the exhaust housing. Also removed the lower coolant house and heat wrapped it, and reinstalled. Made an aluminum coolant overflow/expansion tank as well to help keep the system full and air free! Few little things to go over in the morning and she will be going back to the dyno with new upgraded MAF's, a retune, and more boost!


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../IMG_6406R.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../IMG_6401R.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../IMG_6403R.jpg

looks gorgeous.

:iagree:

looking good!

Nice rev2 dude, liking that cooler placement - watching for results

Great updates. What a great project and learning experience also.

I didn't realize you had the MD Intake mani!! sexy!

Really cool.

This build is amazing and im happy to see a Z pull it off so clean and well done! Tuned in for final results :) Again Very Very nice work!!!

maybe black ceramic coat the piping for a stealthy look and heat protection? It would hide those beautiful welds though.

Very impressive.

What MAF sensors are you guys going to upgrade to?

How does Nissan handle the flow from 2 different MAF sensors to begin with? Are there 2 different airflow curves for each MAF?

I am used to tuning Ford and GM cars with a single MAF, but when you change the MAF size or location on either of those applications you just build a new airflow curve for the calibration.

Couldnt you do that with 2 maf's in 1 pipe or is it just one table even though theres 2 MAF's?

The problem is the MAFs would max out their voltage much earlier. Tuning the MAF tables in the ECU just changes how much airflow the ECU interprets the MAF voltage levels as. Doesn't help if you're maxing out the voltage.

Edit: see post below.

I hate MAFs altogether. Give me MAP metering any day!

As someone else pointed out, 2 MAFs in 1 pipe wouldn't work well because they are sized to handle half the airflow and would max out. Even though you can recalibrate them, it would still be a mess.

The air from both intakes (and MAF's) all ends up in the same place. They are not divided inside the plenum/manifold, and the runners are in a row down the middle so they are pulling air from both intakes at the same time as it is mixed inside the plenum. The ECU just sees the air flow (voltage) from both MAF's and calculates the two together as the total amount of air going in. If each intake only went to one bank of (3) cylinders, the OP would have to re-do the piping to have somewhat even airflow to each side. Since the air is mixed inside the plenum, they are going to overcome the issue by allowing more airflow on one side than the other, and upgrading the MAF's to handle more airflow/voltage on that one side that has more airflow (really a band-aide for the uneven airflow, but it will work with the way our intake plenum and runners are setup).

Edit: The above is not correct. After looking at some pics and the service manual, it is split inside the manifold, and the ECU is looking at the MAF signals as Bank 1 and Bank 2.

Ahhhh, DUH! Not having experience with the innards of the plenum I assumed there was some other reason for the dual MAFs. Editing my post above to not spread false info.

So, I was wrong. It does look like it is split in some way, and the MAF's are specifically referred to as for "Bank 1" and "Bank 2" in the service manual. I am assuming that there is something to even out the airflow to each side, but not sure what it is.

Here are some good pics of the inside of the manifold. http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...take-swap.html

you could put both sensors in one pipe you just need a larger pipe with twice the flow of a single pipe and tweak in the maps. The reduced velocity from the larger pipe will keep the MAF sensors form maxing. <-- also the piping around the problematic sensor could just be bulged out to do the same thing and keep it from maxing. you don't need new MAF sensors you need a new pipe + tune. Also i'm sure his shop already knows all of this so we could all just shut up and wait for it to be finished?

So are the MAF's represented in the processor tables as Bank 1 and 2 or just 1 whole airflow table?

Exactly, thats how its done on Ford and GM's, A larger diameter pipe will produce a lower voltage reading but with a higher airflow level, but you can still max out the sensor. It just buys you a little more room. If you do this and you still max out the sensor then you still need a re-calibrated sensor.

Well, here's an update for eveyone...

I picked up the car last Thursday. I drove it to work Friday and noticed the oil temps at 250. Saturday, I was running some errands and oil temps were up there again...but this time the coolant temp was 1 dot away from the far right. I also heard the car knocking at around 30mph in 4th gear. It was around noon with temps around 88 degrees. So I dropped the car off again Sunday with Shawn.

He moved the oil cooler to the front of the engine bay and made the air deflector for it. He also made a custom overflow tank because there was air in the system. I picked it up yesterday and drove it straight to S&R to check the tune. We did some street tuning for about an hour or so. Very first LIGHT pull (not even 50% throttle) and there was very noticeable knock. I pull over while the tuner is working on the timing/fuel, so the car sat at idle for about 5 minutes. As soon as there is no airflow to the radiator (aka sitting at idle), the temps shoot up! We were seeing 240 degrees at idle and around 215 degrees when driving. Airflow is key to cooling this damn car!

So we do another 10 minute drive and the tuner adjusts the tune again. I now have 5 of the same fuel maps, but each map differs in timing by nearly 2 degrees. Currently at map 3 (middle aggressive timing), there was no knock. Weird thing is at idle, the AFR will be anywhere from 15.0-12.0. At cruising, same thing...sometimes it's ideal and then a few minutes later at cruising, the AFRs will be in the 12s. My gas mileage is going to SUCK for ZDayz.

So I dropped the car back off with Shawn last night at around 10:30. He said he'd hook up a remote switch so I can turn on the fans whenever, rather than giving the car a headstart to warm up and then the fans kick on. On my way to the shop, it was unusually cool (66 degrees) and the coolant dot never moved from 2 dots to the left of center and oil temps hovered around 200-205. Feeling comfortable with the temps, I did go WOT once and didn't hear any knock. Shawn texted me this morning saying he got his hands on Flex-a-lite fans! Once the cooling issues are taken care of, I'll go with bigger injectors and the upgraded MAFs and a new tune. :driving:

Shawn continues to amaze me with his dedication to making me satisfied with my car. He's going the extra mike to get me on my way to ZDayz...because as of last night, I wasn't going to risk anything and I was going to stay here.

I want to mention that I appreciate everyone's comments/feedback/criticism. This is a learning experience for everyone involved. That's what these forums are for...bouncing ideas off each other and helping the community out. Being that this is a true custom build, I know issues are going go arise... and Shawn has been willing every step of the way to help me out. :tup:


I'm not sure what brand they are. S&R ordered them for me.
Thank you for the reference! With the way the VQ35 motors were, I was under the assumption that the air did disperse from the upper plenum into the lower plenum, then into the runners. It doesn't look to be that way in the VQ37s. The good thing is I was watching the AFRs when we were street tuning and the AFR from each bank is nearly identical. It was off by maybe 0.1 at some points.

That was thought about to, but with the way the hood angles down, Shawn could not fit any piping bigger than the 2.5" piping that runs among the front of the motor.