STILLEN 370Z Supercharger System - Announcement!!!

Plasmite · 07-02-2014, 04:07 PM

If that is indeed an o-ring, I would love to know what the mounting bolts were torqued to

DEpointfive0 · 07-02-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plasmite

Just my opinion, but that doesn't look like any kind o-ring I have seen. I deal with a lot of hydraulics and that doesn't look like any kind of heat related damage to an o-ring. That does look like silicone.

I've seen o-rings melted very similar to that.

Plasmite · 07-02-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

I've seen o-rings melted very similar to that.

I've notice in the applications I have dealt with that they will fray and crack, but that is really extreme.

What applications have you seen this if you don't mind me asking?

I've mostly worked on fruitland pumps

Team_STILLEN · 07-02-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italy3541

I understand that you can not spend all your time on here, and my pm was to another person on your team.

What upset me was seeing him online posting in threads but not taking a few second to say he is working on it to me. then when I post something in a thread its a instant response.

that does not build customer confidence.

Thank you very much for your recommendation and in the future I will definitely write a note back to future inquiries letting the customer know that I received their message and I am working on putting together a reply for them and appreciate their patience

DEpointfive0 · 07-02-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plasmite

I've notice in the applications I have dealt with that they will fray and crack, but that is really extreme.

What applications have you seen this if you don't mind me asking?

I've mostly worked on fruitland pumps

My Avalon has a melted gasket like that, and there was 1 more recently, but I have been racking my brains out trying to figure out what it was on... Can't remember

whiddles · 07-02-2014, 05:03 PM

yes I have to take a better picture of the o rings when I get home at 11pm est. I have given them plenty of time to look at the issue before the post as well offered to send the manifold in for them to swap out at the least, but its out of warranty we'll just wait till something bad happens to someone else before we look further into it. LETS GO GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the manifold gaskets was a second issue they they have found after we noticed the water leak, then its all about the manifolds lol

whiddles · 07-02-2014, 05:05 PM

also an email

On Jul 1, 2014 5:26 PM, Trent Noller <tnoller@stillen.com> wrote:

Charles,

I can see the confusion. The warped throttle body area is just another issue I found.

I am not saying that this caused the issue with the intercooler core.

I am still unsure as to what caused the intercooler core to start leaking.

In regards to your previous email asking about the O-ring:

Our O-rings are one piece and you can tell in the first picture I have attached that someone filled in the groove with RTV on your manifold.

The pressure from the two pieces can make it look like one solid ring even if it’s not.

The second picture I have attached shows what our O-ring looks like. It does not get deformed like in your pictures.

This is fairly difficult to explain, but I’m just trying to help you make sense of the whole situation.

Thanks,

Trent

whiddles · 07-02-2014, 05:15 PM

Plasmite · 07-03-2014, 08:55 AM

Well....

The best I can think of is that the gasket was not the proper one for the machined face or they were placed incorrectly. On machined faces, the mating surfaces are supposed to be designed for certain specs. These rings were probably off set from where they were supposed to be or placed in backwards? Upside down? Anyways, looks to me they werent seated properly before being torqued down. I will admit, most of the times you will notice a leak right away, and will see a nick or notice the ring is not seated properly. How it could have gone so long without leaking can only be over torque in my mind.

However, stranger things have happened.

whiddles · 07-03-2014, 10:07 AM

agreed but everyone keeps talking about the rings which was never the issue the issue Im looking for opinions on is the fact that Stillen's failed equipment which caused my engine to hydro lock. The rings never leaked or was an issue

Kyle@STILLEN · 07-03-2014, 10:20 AM

I have been informed that a few people have questions regarding my original post and that I may not have been very clear in how the O ring seats so I want to elaborate a little bit further.

When tightened, O rings compress. That is why you use them. This compression allows for a tight seal and in the case of a throttle body connection you want to avoid any air leaks, hence the reason for the O ring. When engineering an O ring groove such as we have in the intake manifold. it is important to know the rate at which the O ring compresses. You don't want the throttle body to just sit on the O ring, yet you don't want to overtighten and crush the O ring either. If a foreign object or additional sealant is introduced into the channel that the O ring sits in this will cause excessive pressure as the O ring and the CNC machined channel were not designed to have something else in their space. Think of the saying 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag. The additional material has to go some where and it's going to follow its path of least resistance which is the thinnest part of the casting, hence the images you see where the aluminum is either cracked or warped from the pressure built up from the RTV silicone.

Another question had come up regarding the amount of torque that had been applied to the bolts. Keep in mind that this is a cast aluminum intake manifold with 4 6mm bolts attaching the throttle bodies. There isn't much torque in this application.

Plasmite · 07-03-2014, 10:34 AM

Excellent textbook answer. Being aluminum, you would hope there wasn't much force applied.

Quote:

No way would you torque an 8mm bolt to 24 ft lbs into aluminum! You will strip the threads out of the block. Follow GM's 18 ft lbs spec on the oil pump & 24 ft lbs on the cam gear.

Russ Kemp

Another forum and another application, but a effective way to show torque on aluminum is tricky...

thompsontechs · 07-03-2014, 10:51 AM

Looking at that cut in the ring suggests to me that it might have been installed incorrectly to begin with and leaked... at which point someone might have pulled it back off and put RTV on it to seal it. I still do not see how, if the RTV was not set up, it would do that damage. The least line of resistance is for the excess RTV is to squish out of there. To me is looks like possible improper torque there as well.

mikey1600 · 07-03-2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

I have been informed that a few people have questions regarding my original post and that I may not have been very clear in how the O ring seats so I want to elaborate a little bit further.

When tightened, O rings compress. That is why you use them. This compression allows for a tight seal and in the case of a throttle body connection you want to avoid any air leaks, hence the reason for the O ring. When engineering an O ring groove such as we have in the intake manifold. it is important to know the rate at which the O ring compresses. You don't want the throttle body to just sit on the O ring, yet you don't want to overtighten and crush the O ring either. If a foreign object or additional sealant is introduced into the channel that the O ring sits in this will cause excessive pressure as the O ring and the CNC machined channel were not designed to have something else in their space. Think of the saying 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag. The additional material has to go some where and it's going to follow its path of least resistance which is the thinnest part of the casting, hence the images you see where the aluminum is either cracked or warped from the pressure built up from the RTV silicone.

Another question had come up regarding the amount of torque that had been applied to the bolts. Keep in mind that this is a cast aluminum intake manifold with 4 6mm bolts attaching the throttle bodies. There isn't much torque in this application.

I've noticed in the manual while installing my kit, the only parts that specify any torque settings at all is when mounting the manifold, would be good for future people to have more torque settings instead of guessing whether it's tight enough or too tight. (nothing really to do with whether or not he has used silicone, just an observation from myself doing an install this week).

1slow370 · 07-03-2014, 11:41 AM

when round orings go square with frayed edges it is almost a sure sign of to thick of a ring or too shallaw of a groove, o-rings need only have 10-20% compression on a face seal so if it were a 2.0mm oring it needs a groove that is 1.7mm deep. Since it is a low pressure application it really need be only 10% if it were for the oil system then i would say 20-25%

07-02-2014, 04:07 PM	#2581 (permalink)
Plasmite Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 259 Drives: '12 M6 Panty Peeler Rep Power: 12	If that is indeed an o-ring, I would love to know what the mounting bolts were torqued to __________________ WISHLIST

07-03-2014, 08:55 AM	#2589 (permalink)
Plasmite Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 259 Drives: '12 M6 Panty Peeler Rep Power: 12	Well.... The best I can think of is that the gasket was not the proper one for the machined face or they were placed incorrectly. On machined faces, the mating surfaces are supposed to be designed for certain specs. These rings were probably off set from where they were supposed to be or placed in backwards? Upside down? Anyways, looks to me they werent seated properly before being torqued down. I will admit, most of the times you will notice a leak right away, and will see a nick or notice the ring is not seated properly. How it could have gone so long without leaking can only be over torque in my mind. However, stranger things have happened. __________________ WISHLIST

07-03-2014, 10:20 AM	#2591 (permalink)
Kyle@STILLEN The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 626 Drives: Toyota Tundra Rep Power: 306	I have been informed that a few people have questions regarding my original post and that I may not have been very clear in how the O ring seats so I want to elaborate a little bit further. When tightened, O rings compress. That is why you use them. This compression allows for a tight seal and in the case of a throttle body connection you want to avoid any air leaks, hence the reason for the O ring. When engineering an O ring groove such as we have in the intake manifold. it is important to know the rate at which the O ring compresses. You don't want the throttle body to just sit on the O ring, yet you don't want to overtighten and crush the O ring either. If a foreign object or additional sealant is introduced into the channel that the O ring sits in this will cause excessive pressure as the O ring and the CNC machined channel were not designed to have something else in their space. Think of the saying 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag. The additional material has to go some where and it's going to follow its path of least resistance which is the thinnest part of the casting, hence the images you see where the aluminum is either cracked or warped from the pressure built up from the RTV silicone. Another question had come up regarding the amount of torque that had been applied to the bolts. Keep in mind that this is a cast aluminum intake manifold with 4 6mm bolts attaching the throttle bodies. There isn't much torque in this application. Plasmite likes this.

07-03-2014, 10:51 AM	#2593 (permalink)
thompsontechs Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Rockford Posts: 129 Drives: 370 Sport Rep Power: 11	Looking at that cut in the ring suggests to me that it might have been installed incorrectly to begin with and leaked... at which point someone might have pulled it back off and put RTV on it to seal it. I still do not see how, if the RTV was not set up, it would do that damage. The least line of resistance is for the excess RTV is to squish out of there. To me is looks like possible improper torque there as well. Plasmite likes this.

07-03-2014, 11:41 AM	#2595 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	when round orings go square with frayed edges it is almost a sure sign of to thick of a ring or too shallaw of a groove, o-rings need only have 10-20% compression on a face seal so if it were a 2.0mm oring it needs a groove that is 1.7mm deep. Since it is a low pressure application it really need be only 10% if it were for the oil system then i would say 20-25% Plasmite likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 07-03-2014 at 11:43 AM.

07-02-2014, 05:03 PM	#2586 (permalink)
whiddles Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FT HOOD Posts: 219 Drives: G37S AB Rep Power: 15	yes I have to take a better picture of the o rings when I get home at 11pm est. I have given them plenty of time to look at the issue before the post as well offered to send the manifold in for them to swap out at the least, but its out of warranty we'll just wait till something bad happens to someone else before we look further into it. LETS GO GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the manifold gaskets was a second issue they they have found after we noticed the water leak, then its all about the manifolds lol

07-02-2014, 05:05 PM	#2587 (permalink)
whiddles Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FT HOOD Posts: 219 Drives: G37S AB Rep Power: 15	also an email On Jul 1, 2014 5:26 PM, Trent Noller <tnoller@stillen.com> wrote: Charles, I can see the confusion. The warped throttle body area is just another issue I found. I am not saying that this caused the issue with the intercooler core. I am still unsure as to what caused the intercooler core to start leaking. In regards to your previous email asking about the O-ring: Our O-rings are one piece and you can tell in the first picture I have attached that someone filled in the groove with RTV on your manifold. The pressure from the two pieces can make it look like one solid ring even if it’s not. The second picture I have attached shows what our O-ring looks like. It does not get deformed like in your pictures. This is fairly difficult to explain, but I’m just trying to help you make sense of the whole situation. Thanks, Trent

07-02-2014, 05:15 PM	#2588 (permalink)
whiddles Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FT HOOD Posts: 219 Drives: G37S AB Rep Power: 15

07-03-2014, 10:07 AM	#2590 (permalink)
whiddles Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FT HOOD Posts: 219 Drives: G37S AB Rep Power: 15	agreed but everyone keeps talking about the rings which was never the issue the issue Im looking for opinions on is the fact that Stillen's failed equipment which caused my engine to hydro lock. The rings never leaked or was an issue

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