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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Forced Induction (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/)
-   -   ***Topgunz ROTREX C38R Supercharger Kit*** (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/135649-topgunz-rotrex-c38r-supercharger-kit.html)

TopgunZ 12-18-2021 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdiev (Post 4016314)
Forgot to mention that he was still getting the afr on point that way the graphs very a bit
You really need to display the boost graph vs the afrs. Afrs mean nothing here where psi is what we are looking for. I know it's difficult to obtain them. I've been to 50 dyno sessions over 20 tuners and getting them to print or send you what you ask for is like pulling teeth!!! It's been a mystery to me and my buds since I started into cars.. lol. ��


However what we can see from your graph is that the cars performance is almost identical up to 4500rpm weather your running 10psi map or 17psi. Again, mid range power is way up from other centrifugal chargers. If you were running a different centri charger kit you wouldn't see 10psi until redline and the power band would follow suit being lower.

redondoaveb 12-18-2021 08:09 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Here's my dyno sheet with the wastegate set up as a comparison

Mr.K 12-18-2021 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redondoaveb (Post 4016321)
Here's my dyno sheet with the wastegate set up as a comparison
Interesting, your low/mid torque numbers are slightly lower that what I've seen. Usually I see 400wtq being hit at 4.0K RPMs.

redondoaveb 12-18-2021 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.K (Post 4016322)
Interesting, your low/mid torque numbers are slightly lower that what I've seen. Usually I see 400wtq being hit at 4.0K RPMs.
That was with the Vortech V3

redondoaveb 12-18-2021 08:40 PM
1 Attachment(s)
This one did hit 400 with at 4K

Mr.K 12-18-2021 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdiev (Post 4016313)
Not sure if this graph will help any one out. My tuner was was a bit unfamiliar of how to bleed off boost on this setup. Took four tries before he got it figured out.This was on 93 and as you can see the S/C appears to kick in at about 3700 or so.he had a boost cut at 15 psi and was getting it dial in at about 9.5. So first four runs peak boost of 15 psi at about 5500 to 5700 rpm.Last run was finally at 9.5psi.

Guys please keep in mine that when you are getting on it your cars rpm will drop down to 5000 to 5500 hundred depending on the gear.So Any power behind that is something you will never really use unless your in first gear.This is where you guys with rev match transmission can shine because of boost by gear. No boost on first gear would be great because who can really run 600whp in that gear without spinning. Unless you have a killer setup. Anyway everyone has different goals so come the different views. Hopefully this graph helps on how this efficient this kit is. Almost forgot the whp is predictable with more psi but we noticed the torque curve hold way longer(doesn't drop off)throughout the powerband.

I think it depends on how you use your car as you stated. Some guys don't see the lower RPMs but some like myself love to use the entire powerband. So for someone like your self the lower RPMs might not matter as much. Around corners and digs are where the lower RPMs shine. You'll definitely need more grip, better traction and suspension to put the power down :driving:.

Mr.K 12-18-2021 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redondoaveb (Post 4016324)
This one did hit 400 with at 4K

:facepalm: My bad, nice numbers! Your low end (<3K) looks great too! Was that on e85 or 93?

Mr.K 12-18-2021 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4016315)
You really need to display the boost graph vs the afrs. Afrs mean nothing here where psi is what we are looking for. I know it's difficult to obtain them. I've been to 50 dyno sessions over 20 tuners and getting them to print or send you what you ask for is like pulling teeth!!! It's been a mystery to me and my buds since I started into cars.. lol. ��


However what we can see from your graph is that the cars performance is almost identical up to 4500rpm weather your running 10psi map or 17psi. Again, mid range power is way up from other centrifugal chargers. If you were running a different centri charger kit you wouldn't see 10psi until redline and the power band would follow suit being lower.
Speaking of pulling teeth, are we going to get any details on those pulleys?? :ugh:

redondoaveb 12-18-2021 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.K (Post 4016326)
:facepalm: My bad, nice numbers! Your low end (<3K) looks great too! Was that on e85 or 93?
That was the same blower as the previous dyno sheet but a smaller sc pulley and on e85

Mr.K 12-18-2021 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redondoaveb (Post 4016329)
That was the same blower as the previous dyno sheet but a smaller sc pulley and on e85
:eek:Oh wow! So you can replicate results by throwing everything at the older kits. Should mean this kit only has that much more potential since it is able to spin much much higher :tup:.

Birdiev 12-18-2021 10:47 PM
[QUOTE=TopgunZ;4016315]You really need to display the boost graph vs the afrs. Afrs mean nothing here where psi is what we are looking for.

Yea your right,I guess you just have to take my word for it .I was trying to show that I was hitting 15 psi at 5200rpm. Thats why the graphs stop there because of the set boost cut.Meaning anyone running that psi or under will be there by 5200 vs the traditional centrifugal SC setup at 7500.

Of course hp numbers will vary depending on variables but psi should never change as its belt driven and S/C will spin at set rpm vs engine rpm.

Now writing this out , I take it back.Lol.Thinking about it a built engine with say maybe bored,4.2 will have made lower psi at same rpm as it needs more volume to fill the cylinders.

TopgunZ 12-19-2021 06:26 AM
Redondo really pushed the V3. Even overspinning it on the ACE kit we only get 15psi with a turboguard. If you run that blower at it's max recommend from factory it is around 14.5psi with a turboguard. With a proper filter setup (an actual cone filter) it's 12psi.

I can't recall but I think Redondo's oil slinger ate itself apart around 17psi...? I know Soho did a write up where it starts to spit oil out at 18psi. From what I've seen anything over 15psi puts that unit on a yearly rebuild list. Past that the oil slinger cavitates the oil and turns it into a froth not allowing proper cooling since it is self contained. That's when things go bad. (Straight from Vortech).

Mr.K 12-20-2021 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4016346)
Redondo really pushed the V3. Even overspinning it on the ACE kit we only get 15psi with a turboguard. If you run that blower at it's max recommend from factory it is around 14.5psi with a turboguard. With a proper filter setup (an actual cone filter) it's 12psi.

I can't recall but I think Redondo's oil slinger ate itself apart around 17psi...? I know Soho did a write up where it starts to spit oil out at 18psi. From what I've seen anything over 15psi puts that unit on a yearly rebuild list. Past that the oil slinger cavitates the oil and turns it into a froth not allowing proper cooling since it is self contained. That's when things go bad. (Straight from Vortech).
On your kit, the way you currently have it set up, how close is the Rotrex unit to being maxed out?

osmosizzz 12-23-2021 11:48 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4016255)
That's lots of little secrets but can't spill them all.

We are actually creating 3 different pulley setups now. You will be able to select the standard set, race set or Max set. We need to test these still but the max setup will come with Carbonite coated pulleys and cost more but will be reserved for built motors only.

Check out Carbonite coatings if you haven't seen or heard of it. There's also a high grip option called reichard.

We will always strive to improve. Most of the time I'm not even sure what that is until it happens. Lol .
Have you looked into grip-tec? I had a buddy run Carbonite and he was going through belts often. I went the griptec route and change belts once every 8-10 months. This is a 6 rib powering the rotrex C38R. Currently it holds 17psi with a wastegate duty set at 45

Love what you've done with the C38R on this platform btw. Uploaded is a dynongraph on what the C38R does on a 3.7L Honda single cam V6 for comparison. The C38R is a beast in such a small package

TopgunZ 12-24-2021 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosizzz (Post 4016591)
Have you looked into grip-tec? I had a buddy run Carbonite and he was going through belts often. I went the griptec route and change belts once every 8-10 months. This is a 6 rib powering the rotrex C38R. Currently it holds 17psi with a wastegate duty set at 45

Love what you've done with the C38R on this platform btw. Uploaded is a dynongraph on what the C38R does on a 3.7L Honda single cam V6 for comparison. The C38R is a beast in such a small package
That's what I wanted to use but they won't process my custom pulleys. They only sell the application on their pre made pulleys. At least that's the story i got from a guy that works there.

TopgunZ 12-24-2021 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.K (Post 4016405)
On your kit, the way you currently have it set up, how close is the Rotrex unit to being maxed out?
Current setup hits max. 90k. But I've seen lots of guys state you can push it to 95k. Some do 100k or over but they will need to be rebuilt after a couple years like that.

osmosizzz 12-24-2021 02:00 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4016604)
That's what I wanted to use but they won't process my custom pulleys. They only sell the application on their pre made pulleys. At least that's the story i got from a guy that works there.
Hmm that's odd. I had 2 pulleys done at 2 separate times and I had no issues. I always spoke with a young lady at front desk. Not sure if they changed their policy or aren't willing to do that many pulleys. They charged me $140 for my aluminum pulley done in June 2020 and $100 for my steel pulley done march 2021

secondnissan 02-20-2022 02:11 AM
Whats the latest on this kit? Haven't seen any posts in almost 2 months. Did I miss something?

Duke370z 02-20-2022 12:55 PM
I just ordered mine on Thursday, can't wait! Funny how things change i remember posting a few months back that I wasn't going to boost this car.

FrankEtier 02-20-2022 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by secondnissan (Post 4020425)
Whats the latest on this kit? Haven't seen any posts in almost 2 months. Did I miss something?
Been running mine since September making small tweaks along the way.

DrBacon 02-20-2022 11:45 PM
The obnoxious guy on facebook blew his headgasket with the kit, but he probably had it stupidly turned way up.

TopgunZ 02-21-2022 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 4020469)
The obnoxious guy on facebook blew his headgasket with the kit, but he probably had it stupidly turned way up.
I asked him what happened and he said he had a very high mileage car and was running high boost.

TopgunZ 02-21-2022 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by secondnissan (Post 4020425)
Whats the latest on this kit? Haven't seen any posts in almost 2 months. Did I miss something?
Sadly, the forums are slowing down even more. I was hoping they would pick up momentum as guys got sick of FB but it hasn't happened yet. Look back at the posts in the FI section here over the last couple of months. Not much to look at. A few years ago it poured over onto page 2 every day.

There are definitely a lot of builds out there that have not shown up anywhere. Either that or lots of guys have a very fancy table-piece.

FrankEtier 02-21-2022 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4020479)
Sadly, the forums are slowing down even more. I was hoping they would pick up momentum as guys got sick of FB but it hasn't happened yet. Look back at the posts in the FI section here over the last couple of months. Not much to look at. A few years ago it poured over onto page 2 every day.

There are definitely a lot of builds out there that have not shown up anywhere. Either that or lots of guys have a very fancy table-piece.

Young bucks don't know what a "Forum" is... They only know Insta and FB. If it was easier to post pics and make post from a phone or tablet this would probably get more action...

Duke370z 02-21-2022 12:52 PM
Yeah I don't use fb or Instagram. This is as close to social media as I get, and reddit I suppose. I'll be posting updates as I get everything installed. Will be running a cjm fuel system, 1300 injectors. The plan is to take a week off work and bang out everything, hopefully drive it the following Monday.

SwedeZ 02-22-2022 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopgunZ (Post 4020479)
Sadly, the forums are slowing down even more. I was hoping they would pick up momentum as guys got sick of FB but it hasn't happened yet. Look back at the posts in the FI section here over the last couple of months. Not much to look at. A few years ago it poured over onto page 2 every day.

There are definitely a lot of builds out there that have not shown up anywhere. Either that or lots of guys have a very fancy table-piece.
I have yet to have mine built. It was supposed to happen before the winter but different things got in the way so now it's planned for April, my builder/tuner has promised. Fingers crossed.

rspray2000 02-22-2022 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke370z (Post 4020512)
Yeah I don't use fb or Instagram. This is as close to social media as I get, and reddit I suppose. I'll be posting updates as I get everything installed. Will be running a cjm fuel system, 1300 injectors. The plan is to take a week off work and bang out everything, hopefully drive it the following Monday.
AT eh? Curious if you plan to run boost by gear or have built your trans?

14Q60awdSPORT 02-28-2022 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by secondnissan (Post 4020425)
Whats the latest on this kit? Haven't seen any posts in almost 2 months. Did I miss something?
is there something specific you where hoping to see that you haven't yet?

been running my kit for about 2-3 months now.

The max potential for the kit seems to have been tested and hit already assuming you have supporting mods fueling, trans, engine etc... is about 575WTQ/800WHP.

the design of the kit and method it uses to control boost lets you have all kinds of tuning and power delivery options depending on how you want to set it up.

but at the end of the day its still an FI / SC kit. Not sure what more information people are still looking for?

cgr406 03-02-2022 08:53 PM
Received my Rotrex kit a week or so ago. Will be starting to remove ACE & install new one soon. Scheduled for Dynosty tune in late April.:happydance: If only work & house projects would GET OUT OF MY WAY.:rofl2:

secondnissan 03-04-2022 11:51 AM
To those of you with either kit, what have you done to beef up the automatic transmission? Are you limiting power to a certain level? I want this kit but not sure what to do with the transmission. Not interested in level 10 . I want input from actual owners. Thanks

VHRpurr 03-07-2022 08:52 AM
I just want to see more videos of these kits in action…. I’ve only seen the ones from Birdiev (sp) on his YT page… needZ moar’er vid’jas

14Q60awdSPORT 03-08-2022 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by secondnissan (Post 4021247)
To those of you with either kit, what have you done to beef up the automatic transmission? Are you limiting power to a certain level? I want this kit but not sure what to do with the transmission. Not interested in level 10 . I want input from actual owners. Thanks
Besides a trans cooler and an ATF to coolant heat exchanger, nothing at the moment. Running 11psi on E40 at the moment. Holding fine for now.

Debating on my options, if your end goal isn't over 600whp then the VR30 trans swap is a great option.

https://www.godzillaraceworks.com/te...ur-zg-platform

they can make it pretty much a plug and play direct swap over.

DarkJak 03-09-2022 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Q60awdSPORT (Post 4021437)
Besides a trans cooler and an ATF to coolant heat exchanger, nothing at the moment. Running 11psi on E40 at the moment. Holding fine for now.

Debating on my options, if your end goal isn't over 600whp then the VR30 trans swap is a great option.

https://www.godzillaraceworks.com/te...ur-zg-platform

they can make it pretty much a plug and play direct swap over.
Is that the stock heat exchanger in the radiator you are talking about, or an additional atf to coolant one you added outside the radiator, on top of the trans cooler. How large a trans cooler?

I've been caught waiting on HTG to make DTC tuning more approachable, and in the meantime, unsure if I would hate myself for getting this kit installed and running, and potentially overheating, overtaxing my 7AT at the track.

EDIT: VR30 trans swap is tempting in the meantime, but would be a lot of extra money and effort if I end up being able to DCT swap later this year.

rspray2000 03-09-2022 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Q60awdSPORT (Post 4021437)
Besides a trans cooler and an ATF to coolant heat exchanger, nothing at the moment. Running 11psi on E40 at the moment. Holding fine for now.

Debating on my options, if your end goal isn't over 600whp then the VR30 trans swap is a great option.

https://www.godzillaraceworks.com/te...ur-zg-platform

they can make it pretty much a plug and play direct swap over.
I just got their aluminum driveshaft for the swap, but am likely holding on that build until I put the Roadster away for fall this year. They were great to deal with and very responsive over email. Still waiting on my Vortech Si impeller upgrade and I don’t want to sacrifice any warm weather driving due to build/tune not being complete.

14Q60awdSPORT 03-09-2022 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkJak (Post 4021498)
Is that the stock heat exchanger in the radiator you are talking about, or an additional atf to coolant one you added outside the radiator, on top of the trans cooler. How large a trans cooler?

I've been caught waiting on HTG to make DTC tuning more approachable, and in the meantime, unsure if I would hate myself for getting this kit installed and running, and potentially overheating, overtaxing my 7AT at the track.

EDIT: VR30 trans swap is tempting in the meantime, but would be a lot of extra money and effort if I end up being able to DCT swap later this year.
Custom external heat exchanger setup. Not the radiator one, although that is still in use.

Trans Cooler is relatively small. IIRC 2”x5”x12” 10 row with 4 44cfm fans on a thermostat switch, also have a thermostat fluid control valve to mostly bypass the cooler until warm.

There is no real heat exchanger/ warmer like in a lot of cars including newer Q50/Q60. The sliver in the rad does basically nothing. If you monitor trans temps they take forever to warmup in normal driving. My setup has drastically improved trans warm up time.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on DTC swap. I was under the impression it was a lot more work to DTC swap an auto then it is for an MT and the DTC swaps being worked on are for MT cars. But maybe things have changed.

Duke370z 03-20-2022 08:55 PM
Well don't have to worry about the auto trans any more. Just traded my 12 touring AT for a 14 sport/ touring 6spd with 35k miles. :driving:

Didn't want to get to off topic here so I made a thread in new z owner if anyone wants to see pics and more info on the new z.

14Q60awdSPORT 04-20-2022 09:44 AM
In light of COBB's recent announcement, and rumors of Ecutek to follow.

Any update on different pulley sizes?
I believe the changes may prevent the evap purge solenoid from being repurposed for controlling boost.

FrankEtier 04-20-2022 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Q60awdSPORT (Post 4023915)
In light of COBB's recent announcement, and rumors of Ecutek to follow.

Any update on different pulley sizes?
I believe the changes may prevent the evap purge solenoid from being repurposed for controlling boost.
Add a Wastegate and remove the need to control boost via the EVAP purge solenoid. I made this change and it seems to be more consistent.

14Q60awdSPORT 04-20-2022 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankEtier (Post 4023924)
Add a Wastegate and remove the need to control boost via the EVAP purge solenoid. I made this change and it seems to be more consistent.
That is a possible alternative people may have to do in the future if needing a tune/retune.


My setup has no issue holding 10psi low boost map or 11psi high boost map to redline at the moment. But good to know you aren’t getting boost creep on a wastegate.

DrBacon 04-20-2022 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Q60awdSPORT (Post 4023915)
In light of COBB's recent announcement, and rumors of Ecutek to follow.

Any update on different pulley sizes?
I believe the changes may prevent the evap purge solenoid from being repurposed for controlling boost.
You may be better off with a fixed boost/pulley size anyways honestly. What you gain in low end torque from hitting peak boost earlier in the powerband you lose by decreased efficiency beyond that. This isn't a turbo where you are just bleeding off the excess wasted combustion anyways, you are making the engine work harder by spinning the supercharger at a certain rpm producing a specific CFM, by bleeding off the excess you are essentially wasting "work", also position of the wastegate/bypass valve matters as well, hopefully it's pre-intercooler.


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