$26,000! Yikes!! Most guys didn't even pay that much for their Z. I honestly hope they pull their head from their asses and make it right for you man. Gamma, if you want to earn our trust, here would be a good start. Take care of Z elimnator and return to him what he's owed.

He said in the other thread that the previous deal fell through because the customer didn't want to pay the extra cost to convert it to a 370z from the G kit.

Absolutely agree! I saw a text/email posted somewhere where the Gamma owner said they are not legally or morally obligated to do anything. I understand the legal loopholes they are using to avoid paying customers that got screwed, but morally these guys are already bankrupt. That is precisely the kind of attitude I would expect from management willing to hire someone like Sam. We know exactly what kind of people these guys are. There is no doubt that these guys knew exactly what they were doing and were looking to take advantage of the situation. Without making a significant number of people in this community whole again, they do not deserve a dime of business from this community. IMO anyone who says otherwise either has something to lose from a personal standpoint (i.e. they've already given Gamma their money) or they just don't care about the community :twocents:

:iagree:

GTM bought equipment and parts from the deposits of unfortunate group buy customers of the then MHI, now redubbed V3, kit. Any person buying a V3 kit from Gamma is buying what I would consider stolen goods from good hardworking forum members of both this site and myG37.com.

this ^^^^^^^^^^

this is when I laugh at the few on here repping GTM/Gamma like some fuckin addict fresh out of rehab.

zelim got that much money missing and cant get a phone call returned but you other people say you're in talks with sam and gamma and emails blah blah blah bullshit.

I really cant give them any slack even with the "firing sam" PR stunt.

even if these people are made whole i'm still gonna have to talk down about GTM/Gamma and ALWAYS steer fellow Z/G brothers in a better direction for their part needs.

I talked to Sam. last week
But im not sure that Gamma knows what is happing.
May be it will take some time for them to contact me as others may be ahead of me.
I know were my engine is and how much work has been done to it.
Sam was very honest and upfront with me about that.
he told me the truth about it and he was not lying to me .
If they had my pistons I would have had the 4.2 stroker in a short time.
For the most of times he has been very honest with me.
it just takes forever.
Since the pistons were missing I decided to go for a 4.5 stroker, they have the sleeves and only have to order the pistons. I have not paid for these parts.
My stage 3 heads are done and completed.
Hopefully Gamma will call me.
To date I have no issues with them, and I expect them to complete my engine and ship it to me, with all the engine parts on it.
All they have to do is ask Pablo.
I like him a lot as he always treated me with respect.
The same goes for Mike,
Im willing to work with Gamma

Z eliminator.

you're quite the optimist for having 26k just floating around somewhere.

i really hope you are made whole and don't get it from behind anymore from sam, gtm, gamma. i know you say sam calls you and whatnot but how long has it been that you've been waiting? i swear for the last 3 years I've seen you talk about this engine and SC kit that you've been waiting on.

I got the Stage 2 kit SC. still waiting for the Stage 3 upgrades.
It came with all the parts
The stage 3. 7 AT was also shipped and I have it.

Z

if Sam the Scam doesnt come thru for Z elim, this community will go nuts.

rightfully so, we are all on the same team, a smear campaign is not big deal to me if I can spare another victim

Loopholes?

Do you know the transaction Sam had with Gamma? Do you have details of the deal? Do you know exactly what they bought? Do you know the revisions of the deal or how many it took?

I can tell you I have seen and heard first hand the high level details... In no way shape or form do they owe anything! Legally or Morally.... What you see from Todd, Zeliminator and Myself is the sanity of the situation. We know more than most. I know way more than a majority and I can tell you the high level of what went down.

They bought the intellectual property to the kits along with a few other products. They also re-established vendor/manufacturer relationships. They did indeed part ways with Sam. Despite what most of you choose to believe they are here to make products. The fact they are working with many of us says leaps and bounds to their morality!

So before we grab our torches and pitchforks lets get a hold of the facts! Stop making emotional decisions and start being logical. If anyone has a right to make an emotional decision its Zeliminator and myself. We have spent more money with Sam and GTM than most pay for their cars. This is also why we are so close to the knowledge of whats going on... You spend this kind of money you make sure you know whats going on with the business.

So lets keep it civil and keep this on topic to what people are experiencing with Gamma so the Admins and others will have first hand accounts of peoples dealings with the possible vendor.

Zeliminator will be in good hands. We have locals that have helped tremendously in his efforts. Sam was also honest with Zeliminator on the status of his motor. We know where his motor and parts are and Zeliminator is in talks with all parties involved. I have also given him a few extra communication paths and will most definitely be helping him retrieve his parts.

That is really good to hear, looking forward to a positive outcome

Ok, we don't have to call them legal loopholes. We can call it capitalism: business (i.e. $$$) > consumer. It's just the way it works when a company owes customers more money than they have and declares bankruptcy. Call it what you will. I never claimed to know any of the details. But if it looks like a scam and smells like a scam, it's probably a scam. Gamma doesn't look to be directly scamming customers at this point, I'm happy to see, and I never said otherwise.

But there is still a problem with Gamma in regards to the morality of the whole situation:

Hot topic

Lets clear this up. GAMMA is not selling previously sold kits to people... There is no morality issue here. I was in the shop a few months before GTM moved. I had several people in and out of the shop as well. I can tell you this as a fact. The inventory Sam had was not of complete kits as a matter of fact he didnt have much in the way of partial kits... They were finished and shipped out. When Gamma bought the intellectual property they had to start from scratch. Inventory was extremely limited when they bought in. If you guys were actually in the shop leading up to the transaction you would know this.

Stop trying to make connections where there is none. Here is the biggest issue. We all got burned by GTM! Does it Suck YES! in the case for some of us its worse than others. Now GAMMA a new company owned by different people bought the intellectual property to the SC'r and TT kits along with some other misc. products. They opened up shop in a new facility that Sam had procured. (to those saying why do they have to be in the US... these guys are based out of the middle east... you want to pay that shipping cost?). Gamma is both a different legal entity and different ownership and management. All the inventory is new and fresh. None of the inventory consisted of previously sold kits.

Now that we are straight... back on topic...

I'm not sure this was ever made clear :tiphat:

Also, they are not selling the MHI turbo kits... they are selling the V3 kits based on the Garrett Turbocharger platform...

For those thinking Sam just walked with the GB money you would be dead wrong. He ran into production issues... The manifolds to fit the MHI turbos and the turbos themselves had issues. He went through over a dozen investment casts for the turbo manifolds alone... which is what was taking so long... I saw them all lined up on the floor and held them in my hands... The money from those sales went to the kits the problem was he did the GB too early and hadnt finished the development of the kit. I was saying this back in the day when issues started arising. This was a bad business decision and many of us got burned... He attempted to pay back people and I know he worked out deals with several people but I dont know if everyone got taken care of. Now I know some people may be able to upgrade to the V3 kit with Gamma in order to offset their loss. In that they are being very generous... they are not bound legally or morally to any former customers of GTM.

MHI does not equal V3 just FYI... the only common pieces were ancillary items and the turbo manifolds. The V3 manifolds had to be developed by a new manufacturer to get the issues sorted.

So because you and vivid spents xxx amounts of money with gtm and small joe on the forum only spent x amount. You guys deserve higher priority and prompt attention? Sorry man, but that condescending attitude is what drove that business to the ground. This forum is full of potential customers like small joe, and your words doesn't instill much confidence right now. I hope this new company learn from that mistake and start treating each one of their customer, large or small, with the same level of respect and service, and not just the selected few. So far gamma haven't shown any signs of that. So before we start talking about possible vendor status. How about making amends with all the unhappy customers first! That's how you earn credibility and establish new client base. It's basic business 101. Not this "We are not legally or morrally obligated" bull crap. If you don't think there is anything wrong with the way this company answered its potential customer, you're very much contributing to its problem. And I don't care if their products are the best in the business (which I highhly doubt), if they can't establish trust with their customers base, they will be gone quicker than you can spell out C A N C E R.

Possible vendor ::inoutroflpuke: yeah, good luck with that!

what about guys in my situation ?,nobody has contacted me about my stage 2 sc kit I paid in full for less then a year ago

grab some lube.


:tiphat:

I Have Spent over $17K with GTM.

You do understand that they bought intellectual property meaning Sam's ideas correct? They bought misc. stuff like bullitt stated because there was no product. Everything is brand new made by Gamma. That being said when they offer someone that got SCREWED over by SAM (NOT GAMMA MOTORS) their TT kit for 2k, yes that 2k seems unfair to the customer but if you look at the 8k loss they are taking on a brand new turbo kit they had to produce from scratch; the loss they are taking by even offering the unhappy customers of GTM a chance at their turbo kit for 2k should be immensely appreciated because since they DO NOT have any of the "Owed Product" that Sam owes everyone. So they are taking an 8k loss per TT kit and you are complaining?

That is something most business will shoot down in the conference room because they are losing 80% on everything they sell to the GTM customers trying to fix Sam's mistake; all to try and earn them as a customer and show them that they are taking a huge loss to set things straight for the ones that did get screwed over.
Heck if I offered 80% off on all the insurance premiums I sell my boss would probably literally kill me. Why? because its something a business should never have to consider. But they are.

If anything this should be something that everyone should be happy about (I understand that a lot of money has been invested by a lot of people) but your only other option at this point is to wait in line with the Lawsuits.

Choose one.

A. Complain about how Gamma isn't doing things correctly even though all true evidence based off math, logic, and in person evidence (provided by Bullitt and Z elim) rather you can use your irrational emotions based on SAM's screw up and wait in line with the rest of the people for the lawsuit

B. Accept the fact that Gamma motors is doing everyone a favor even though it will cost everyone who has had money invested an extra 2k to more than likely upgrade to the v3 kits.

The choice is yours, may the odds ever be in your favor. :inoutroflpuke: :tup:

I am blown away by the responses in this thread. I have absolutely no idea how the concept has yet to be grasped by some of you.

Look at it this way.... Gamma is a completely different entity than GTM. Everyone keeps talking about making amends with unhappy customers. Which customers? As far as I know, Gamma hasn't had any unhappy customers. As a matter of fact, anyone that has actually spent money at Gamma seems to be pretty happy from what THEY are posting.

How are you supposed to blame a company for another companies bad business practices, then demand that they give you free stuff? I say free stuff because Gamma has paid for the manufacture of turbo kits, and are expected to give them away for no payment from GTM's old customers. From what Bullitt just said, Gamma bought the intellectual properties. They didnt inherit a bunch of full turbo kits laying around. Think about this logically, how do you expect Gamma to survive as a business if they pay thousands of dollars to manufacture turbo kits to give them away to some other companies pissed off customers? Does that make any sense to any of you? Would you do that? No you wouldn't. THAT is bad business practice.

The fact that Gamma is even offering anything to GTM's old customers shows to me that their morality is better than most. Hiring Sam was a bad idea. A really bad idea. In the eyes of most of you with your fire and pitchforks, there is nothing they can do right simply because they 1) bought intellectual property from GTM and 2) had Sam as an employee. They fired Sam, and you still aren't happy. What do you really expect from a company that is brand new?

Look, it sucks. Sam should be in jail for what he did, however he is protected under bankruptcy laws. That is how the business world works. Gamma saw an opportunity to grab some great products (intellectual property apparently, very little hard product) at a discounted price and decided to capitalize on it, yet they are being held responsible for something they had no hand in.

Congrats, brah. You the exclusive club!:tup:

If your name isn't bullit, vivid or warpeacelove

your current two options are:

1. Work with gamma.

2. File a small claim case

Some folks are just hard headed. Let them continue on:drama:

And we will continue to make sure potential customers steer clear of this company. They don't deserve the businesses here and prey on people. You bring up a other thread and we will be here.

I had pictures sent to me by sam of my actual kit,it just has not been finished,so yes I do think gamma owes me and others product,my kit that I spent 8500$ is sitting in there shop

You are the victim of a scam. Unfortunately I highly doubt you will be contacted by anyone because the only person to blame for that is Sam. Im sure he will not be following up with anyone.

Call them for yourself and talk to them.

i doubt it was pics of your actual kit. most likely some stock photos he had laying around to send to everyone who had the same thing on order.

So just continue to volley blame around until you get reparation? And by you I mean any customer that was wronged by GTM.

When was it stated that if you paid $2200 you got your missing V3 kit? The $2200 originally in question was what Gamma told the dude he needed to pay to complete the missing pieces of his SC kit. It had nothing to do with supplying someone a whole kit. If I remember correctly the guy was only missing the SC unit itself and intake piping. I guarantee you it doesn't cost Gamma $2200 to get those missing pieces and ship them to the guy. Therefore they are not taking a loss and in fact still making a little profit on top. They are completely in the right to do that but let's not put a spin on it that they are in any means taking a 'loss' supplying kits to former GTM customers.

they definitly could have been of somebody elses kit but in picture was my receipt and gamma also has said that they have my kit and are awaiting parts to finish it,maybe we should focus on these situations and these only before we cast judgement on gamma,if guys like me and others receive our stuff then lets pat gamma on the back but till then............

ask this guy for advice on how to deal with sam

http://i44.tinypic.com/jhqvrp.gif

but in all honesty, this is a double edged sword. nothing that can be done will be "right."

from a business prospective gamma can't just give free stuff away, because they are on the losing end then. if they acquired completed kits for no money, then yes they should give them for free. however, that doesn't seem to be the case.

from a average joe prospective, it's not fair that you should have to give more money on top of the money you have already given. unfortunately when he filed for bankruptcy, there is nothing you can do. you gave the money to his company and his company went under. it's like the stock market, if you give money for a stock and that stock crashes, you won't get your money back.

arguing back and forth won't fix any issue(s). only thing that would make it fair is, if sam pocketed that money and gave it back to the appropriate people. pointing fingers is just a waste of time and won't get anything done.

also, people have the right to be skeptical about gamma because they haven't delivered anything, yet. maybe if they start delivering to some people and fixing some things, they can gain some trust.

now i'll go back to enjoying drinking my monster.

Edit: Thanks for talking to me offline FP, sorry for the misunderstanding.


These comments continue to spiral out of control @fpenvy and @zbrah, I kindly ask you to stop with the accusations. Stop trying to wrap our name in with Sam and GTM and his scam. You have no basis for your accusations and what you are doing is smearing our name all over this forum as if we had something to do with it. Whether you intended to or not, you are affecting my reputation and my ability to do my job on this forum. I don't appreciate it, I didn't ask for it and I won't stand for it.

How would you like it if I came in to your work and prevented you from achieving your goals? Remind me again what I ever did to you to get treated this way? Was it because I bought a GTM SC kit and had to wait over a year to get the parts to have it completed so I could sell it? Was it because I was owed money by GTM that carried over and became Gamma's debt and in good faith they decided it was a good idea to take care of us on it? Is there a problem with either of those questions? I am asking you, and everyone else to simply stop, keep our name out of your mouth, I didn't do anything to deserve this.

YES.

When my fellow z brethren gets kicked around in bad business practices I will NOT sit idly and watch it contiue. I will however raise my voice if it can get some attention to help get him some resolutions. And I will continue to speak out to warn people of this shady company and become a potential victim :cool:

Don't estimate the power of this community when we come together. Have you guys forgotten that it was out voices that quickly put that scammer out the door? Unlike some of you (bullit, vivid, birdman) who think nothing can be done or nothing should be done, and that everything going down is simply normal business conducts. I think I speak for the majority of this community that we will not tollerate bad business practices here to go on, especially when so many people have been a victimized by it. You continue to bring it we will continue to knock it down.

Reading Comprehension FAIL...:shakes head:

No one has stated they receive priority treatment based on amounts paid. However, what was stated is that because we spent so much money we made it a priority to know the interworkings of that company. This comes from building relationships and having constant communications... Usually meaning if GTM didnt answer the phone or we werent able to get the answer we wanted. We called up again that same day, we sent email follow ups after every call. We travelled out to the shop... On big builds like mine and Zeliminator this is almost a must no matter who is building your car.

This isnt being condescending this is being real! yeah someone may have lost $5k but does that compare to $26k like Zeliminator? are you really comparing the two? When I stated that those who spent more and are on the hook for more arent running for the pitchforks and are not blaming Gamma. We are taking a more rational and logical approach. By all means blame Gamma all you want. but facts are facts you can ignore them all you want and all it will do is make you look the fool.

I am taking a calmer head to the situation because I consider my money lost and anything I get in return is only a bonus! Do I want a full refund? HELL YEAH! Will I get the full refund? NO... Its a reality I have come to grips with. Call it lessons learned and I do all my own work now.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ARE THEY LIABLE MORALLY OR LEGALLY!!! THEY BOUGHT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY!

Your whole premise is based on inaccurate information what you see and hear on the forum. If they bought the business from Sam including assets then yes they would have a liability both legally and morally. Sam tried to sell the business several times and couldnt reach agreements with any of the possible buyers. I was not trying to put this out there but The only deal he could bring down was just for the intellectual rights and the relationships with manufacturers. This is based on the second hand information I received from insiders.



Tiller, Have you called them? Have you emailed them about your situation and sent them the invoices? I had to take the first steps to even get a response.

If we dont do the due dillegence we cant expect a new company to go find every bad situation GTM did. Just as an FYI... Sam was a horrible record keeper from what I saw and heard and with his health situation it got way worse! You hoped something didnt get left on his desk. It was known by several people that anything that landed on his desk was lost forever.

What should be allowed to happen is let Gamma become a member on the forum, so anyone who had a dog in the fight (GTM bs) is allowed to get answers transparently. No 3rd party should be allowed to post in the thread. At least give them a chance to tell their side. They havent been allowed to speak one word or even make a statement on if they intend to do anything about the group buy.

I also stated earlier that those numbers are for the people of the group buy that said that they paid 7k-8.5k upfront. If you base it off the general consensus that a single TT kit from a non-group buy costs 10k. So yeah for people who do not have any piece of their kit, another payment may have to be made because Sam's scam was a Group Buy discounted price of which I do not believe Gamma Motors will honor because then at that point they are literally handing out new kits to unhappy GTM customers.

But for that point you stated; if you can get it completed cheaper elsewhere do so and it is a win win for you (the OP of the missing SC and piping) at that point besides being ripped off by Sam. You avoid Gamma's $2200 and you don't have to wait in line with the lawsuits (although if you have it completed and want to try and get the money you spent to complete the kit reimbursed I would suggest so)


Besides that for the list of people who have paid an immense amount of money and have no kit what-so-ever it seems like you should contact Gamma Motors and let them know the situation about your old kit with Sam and see what offer they have for you.
Ask them literally "What is the best deal you can give me?" just straight up.
Negotiate. Try and get the best deal possible so you can end up with your kit and install it. Once you pay the amount with Gamma Motors, Get yourself in line with the lawsuit to get your money refunded that you had to pay on top of the Group buy "paid in full" amount; that way everyone who got screwed over by SAM gets their kit owed by SAM from GAMMA Motors, but in the end if the lawsuit doesn't crumble under a Bankruptcy filing from Sam, you will all get your money back for the Kit owed to you from Sam, maybe include the installation in there as damages for the delays. Not only that if you really are that upset about how everything has played out in REALITY, please file for emotional and physical duress as well so Sam will have to pay you more damages.
Seem like a fair compromise?