Stillen Air to Air setup

Z&I · 06-25-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I have never seen or heard of a copper cooler. They may exist and yes copper has better heat transfer rate. Its probably a cost thing. It would be insanely expensive to manufacture vs aluminum. Water is more efficient but once it heat soaks its done. On a track it will never cool back down in time to make it useful. If you hit it full throttle on the street then drove around for a couple of minutes at cruising speed it would then become closer to ambient but never fully ambient as that manifold can cook eggs on it and it becomes an oven for the aftercooler inside of it. You are then recirculating hot water all the time.

People have tried bigger hoses, bigger storage tanks, bigger pumps and bigger front mounts. Another thing is to get that storage tank out of the hot engine bay. If you really want a low pressure drop water to air you would need to pipe it so the aftercooler is mounted in the front bumper and not in the oven manifold. Like a barrel style.

I contacted Plazmaman (located in Australia) regarding making a custom barrel style secondary w2a I/C that would mount directly after the SC'r.(There is room enough to do this - but you are limited in size and therefore cooling capacity)
The idea here was to augment the Stillen aftercooler by initially cooling the charge before the TB's .

The barrel style I/C's don't drop much pressure, so it might have worked.

The Plazmaman custom w2a I/C would have been fairly expensive but they promised a quick turnaround.
I also considered an even larger Heat Exchanger than the Frozen Boost, and a larger circulating pump, to provide more cooling potential to the Stillen I/C itself.

TopgunZ · 06-25-2015, 12:19 PM

Really a guy could just buy a nice racing radiator you would normally use to cool your engine water for long track days. Something like a Mishimoto or the like.

Z&I · 06-25-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Really a guy could just buy a nice racing radiator you would normally use to cool your engine water for long track days. Something like a Mishimoto or the like.

I also thought of going A/C delete along with the Mishimoto racing radiator (removing the A/C heat exchanger section) and using the new found space for the barrel style I/C heat exchanger.

I know you are definitely committed to going Air to Air - It is an extremely reasonable endeavor and the whole purpose of this thread.
I believe you are really on to something here...and you stand to become the 'Hero of Heat' when you get your design configured, installed, and cooling.

Just laying some ground work here for you - And perhaps some others who may be considering upgrading the Stillen ... Doesn't make sense to waste time doing something that someone else has already thought of or even proven doesn't work or isn't practical.

A number of us have already wrestled with trying to find the solution to make the Stillen work with the w2a.

So far there have been a few other novel ideas posted that have been given a great deal of thought and do have some merit.

Hopefully discussing the pro's and con's of each approach will benefit all.

Attached are some pics of the barrel heat exchanger (preliminary dimensions), and the location for the I/C.
I was able to find some more room for the I/C by removing some material from the radiator brace...so the I/C could have possibly have been even larger.

Plazmamans response was not to recommend the idea of 2 smaller I/C's but to go with 1 larger one instead, even though they have seen both ways installed.

Either way - the w2a solution was getting more complicated as time went on.

https://www.plazmaman.com/

TopgunZ · 07-08-2015, 11:11 PM

Do they make an overdrive crank pulley for the Z?

Has anyone toyed with this yet? It could crank out more psi with less chance of slippage on the sc belt.

Z&I · 07-11-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Do they make an overdrive crank pulley for the Z?

Has anyone toyed with this yet? It could crank out more psi with less chance of slippage on the sc belt.

Hi Aaron ...
I was hoping that someone would jump in on this one!
I had researched this area when I was still building the Stillen.
Never was able to find a definitive answer though ... but I did speak with Bobby at CIN Motorsports and he was developing an overdrive pulley to spin up his Vortech V7 project.
He said he was going to need a 'slightly' larger crank pulley but didn't have the actual percentage figured out ... and was still in the trial and error phase of his engineering.
Something to consider is the max rating of the Stillen/Vortech V3 is 55000 RPM with the upgraded impeller.
Attached is a copy of the Dyno Run on my car with the Stillen showing little gain in HP and Tqe dropping off after 6900 RPM - Reducing your shift point actually might work to your advantage here.

Here is a link to check out - NST Pulleys.
10% overdrive on the crank might be too much for your SC'r application.
Maybe NST can come up with a custom solution for you combining a lesser overdrive % on the crank and the corresponding underdrive on the accessories.

NST Nissan 370Z Pulley Kit Dyno Testing | NonStopTuning

TopgunZ · 07-12-2015, 12:57 PM

Sounds like that could be a tricky one. Has anyone looked into swapping the two 6 rib pulleys for 8 rib? It looks like it would fit. But then again if that would work why did some go cog?

Pro4Jackster · 07-12-2015, 01:06 PM

Went with cogs for the ease and availability of changing S/C rpms. They are already run that way on the DE. You can run anywhere from a 32T-32T (1:1) to 34T-28T setup. Just have to change the idler pulley OD to make it all fit since there aren't many cog belt sizes.

Dynosty built some custom 8-rib pulleys for a Stillen S/C HR a few years ago and added a 50 shot. It's on their blog a long time ago, but it's easy to google.

I contacted ATI for a Superdampr a couple of years ago. They will custom make anything you want. I don't remember the price, but it was around $1000-$1200 for one, and $600-$800 if I could get a group buy. I was shooting for around a 6.25"-6.5" OD but gave up on the whole thing.

TopgunZ · 07-13-2015, 02:05 PM

Did some good R&D on Sunday. Placed a massive order for all parts I think I will need and should be able to get some work done this coming weekend.

Who thinks the MAFS would work in their current location on the Y-pipe except a blow through with an air straightener right before the single inlet?

jwick · 07-13-2015, 03:00 PM

I think the MAFs preSCer are the majority of the problems with the Stillen kit.

EVOHUNTER · 07-13-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Did some good R&D on Sunday. Placed a massive order for all parts I think I will need and should be able to get some work done this coming weekend.

Who thinks the MAFS would work in their current location on the Y-pipe except a blow through with an air straightener right before the single inlet?

Im excited to see what happens with this.

Id put the Mafs as close to the factory position as possible.

Im dropping my car off july 21 with sasha to start on the Air to Air.

ill keep u guys posted.

TopgunZ · 07-13-2015, 04:23 PM

No. I mean using the Y-pipe as a splitter for the dual intake. I have a single outlet IC. After it comes out of the ic it goes into the engine bay on the passenger side only through the same route a CAI would and like my BP kit did since that shroud is already cut for the intake pipe. Right after going through that hole, I would mount the stillen Y-pipe and house my MAFS in there then place a pipe off each into each throttle body to the stillen mani. Basically, I could use the Y-pipe that has the maf inserts already in them instead of finding a different Y and MAF pipes. Obviously I would be taking both filters off.

Hence the "blow through". My question is... Is there enough pipe before the Y so the MAFS will get good readings? Or is that short distance from the Y of the pipe too short and cause turbulence leading to erratic readings?

jwick · 07-13-2015, 04:45 PM

Can't answer that one but why not use the intakes from the BP kit and just locate the MAFs in the factory location.

TopgunZ · 07-13-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Can't answer that one but why not use the intakes from the BP kit and just locate the MAFs in the factory location.

I don't think that there is room to Y it off if I use them. I might have to get creative and see though.

jwick · 07-13-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I don't think that there is room to Y it off if I use them. I might have to get creative and see though.

Shorten the passenger one and reroll the edge for the coupler. You could modify the driver or leave it as is

mikey1600 · 07-14-2015, 10:20 AM

can't wait to see what happens with the 2 builds, ready to upgrade mine!

Was just going to go the E85/upgraded impeller route, but I'll wait and see

06-25-2015, 12:19 PM	#77 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	Really a guy could just buy a nice racing radiator you would normally use to cool your engine water for long track days. Something like a Mishimoto or the like. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

07-08-2015, 11:11 PM	#79 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	Do they make an overdrive crank pulley for the Z? Has anyone toyed with this yet? It could crank out more psi with less chance of slippage on the sc belt. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

07-12-2015, 12:57 PM	#81 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	Sounds like that could be a tricky one. Has anyone looked into swapping the two 6 rib pulleys for 8 rib? It looks like it would fit. But then again if that would work why did some go cog? __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

07-12-2015, 01:06 PM	#82 (permalink)
Pro4Jackster Base Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NW Houston Posts: 130 Drives: '08 350Z Rep Power: 14	Went with cogs for the ease and availability of changing S/C rpms. They are already run that way on the DE. You can run anywhere from a 32T-32T (1:1) to 34T-28T setup. Just have to change the idler pulley OD to make it all fit since there aren't many cog belt sizes. Dynosty built some custom 8-rib pulleys for a Stillen S/C HR a few years ago and added a 50 shot. It's on their blog a long time ago, but it's easy to google. I contacted ATI for a Superdampr a couple of years ago. They will custom make anything you want. I don't remember the price, but it was around $1000-$1200 for one, and $600-$800 if I could get a group buy. I was shooting for around a 6.25"-6.5" OD but gave up on the whole thing. __________________ Jtranbuilt '08 Z [Jtran PT7075 Single - Fujitsubo - Transgo - Wilwood - TE37SL - BC Racing] Last edited by Pro4Jackster; 07-13-2015 at 01:34 PM.

07-13-2015, 02:05 PM	#83 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	Did some good R&D on Sunday. Placed a massive order for all parts I think I will need and should be able to get some work done this coming weekend. Who thinks the MAFS would work in their current location on the Y-pipe except a blow through with an air straightener right before the single inlet? __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

07-13-2015, 03:00 PM	#84 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	I think the MAFs preSCer are the majority of the problems with the Stillen kit. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

07-13-2015, 04:23 PM	#86 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	No. I mean using the Y-pipe as a splitter for the dual intake. I have a single outlet IC. After it comes out of the ic it goes into the engine bay on the passenger side only through the same route a CAI would and like my BP kit did since that shroud is already cut for the intake pipe. Right after going through that hole, I would mount the stillen Y-pipe and house my MAFS in there then place a pipe off each into each throttle body to the stillen mani. Basically, I could use the Y-pipe that has the maf inserts already in them instead of finding a different Y and MAF pipes. Obviously I would be taking both filters off. Hence the "blow through". My question is... Is there enough pipe before the Y so the MAFS will get good readings? Or is that short distance from the Y of the pipe too short and cause turbulence leading to erratic readings? __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM Last edited by TopgunZ; 07-13-2015 at 04:33 PM.

07-13-2015, 04:45 PM	#87 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	Can't answer that one but why not use the intakes from the BP kit and just locate the MAFs in the factory location. __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

07-14-2015, 10:20 AM	#90 (permalink)
mikey1600 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 503 Drives: MY11 370z Black Rep Power: 17	can't wait to see what happens with the 2 builds, ready to upgrade mine! Was just going to go the E85/upgraded impeller route, but I'll wait and see

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