7A Transmission...dare I commit heresy?
 

I watched a few Youtubes and the 7A transmission looks like it can be controlled pretty easily. I no-longer can argue "Well, the manual allows more control" without feeling like a liar. It really doesn't for all intents and purposes.

I cannot shift as fast as an automatic.

I have owned a '95 Trans Am with an automatic and that broke me of ever owning one in a sports car again. When I beat on it some in 100* weather, it would get hot and start shifting mushily. At the "breaking point" between 3rd and 4th, if you were REEEAAALLLYYY gentle on the throttle, it would bounce between tq converter lock-up/4th/3rd unlocked. It made for a bumpy embarrassing and probably wear-inducing moment.

This isn't 1995. The 2012 370Z transmission is a lot better I am sure.

My question is this: Have any of you gone from manual to automatic and liked it better? I don't mean you lazy people who can't be troubled to shift. I do that without thinking. I mean from a feel/performance/"hey, this is so much quicker/more precise" standpoint?

I am against the auto because I feel that it will disconnect me from the driving experience. However, the 7A in the 370z is about as good as an auto gets without being a true DCT, and I cannot deny that it is indeed faster.

Also, has anyone tracked the auto? Does it overheat without the addition of another cooler? I hated that about my '95 Trans Am. It was good for maybe 2-3 WOT blasts in 100* heat and then you had to simmer down. My manuals...I just drive and drive and drive them.

Also, how is it when cold? My G20 has an auto (one of the shittiest known to man...) and if it's below 80* outside if I get on it before it is FULLY warmed up, it will hang between gears, shifting VEERRRRYYYY slow and I am sure tearing up the clutch bands as it rides 2nd and 3rd on the upshift until it FINALLY oozes on into 3rd. No, I am not talking about flogging it, I mean just pulling out into traffic and giving it enough gas to not gear rear-ended. Shifting at about 4500rpm (pretty low for the gutless stock SR20DE).

So...

...what quirks about the 7A would tick me off? Throttle delay even worse than the "drive-by-wire" in use with 99% of cars now? Delay on the freeway when stomping it in D? Not skipping gears when floored in 7th to a 3rd drop? Shift flare? Sluggish shifting when cold? Overheating on track-days without an additional cooler?

How does it feel in "manual"? You floor it and it's an instant connection like the stick, or the tq converter soaks up the "hit" and it feels sluggish from say, a 50mph punch compared to a manual?

Wstar and wwjd are the only guys I know that track autos...might read their threads




IMO, the auto in the z still doesn't hit as hard or give as much control as I want...BUT, if I was going to buy another z, it would probably be an auto, mostly due to disappointment with the 6mt.

Good info! Has the logic been redone on the software, or not? What do you mean by doing nothing. Literal, or just no shifting at .9g?

I had my 7AT since 2 year now and been on the track as well,

the must thing is definatly to have trans oil cooler !

That's wwjd's post, check with him. I dont have much time behind the wheel of an auto

"The power is great in first 4th gears, but 5th gear and above has no power at all. I was doing 106-110 mph when exiting turn 9 at Big Willow, at the end of the long straight away, I could only get the car up to 122-123 mph range. WTF."



5th gear is 1:1 above that is OD for gas savings, not for racing. Driver should never get about 5th gear in a race.

I went from manual to Auto when i switched from my 370z to my bmw 335. I'm very happy with the transmission which is very fast shifting and solid, and i do not feel bored ever while i'm driving it. That being said, i only DD This car and never take it to cruise or joyride, and if you've always had your sports car being a manual, you will probably miss it. IMO the Z isn't powerful enough where you should be getting one transmission over the over because of speed or 1/4 mile times. Its great that people who prefer auto now no longer have to settle for a worse transmission. However if you have always had MT sports cars you'll miss driving stick, its simple as that. It seems like you prefer manual, and if i were you i wouldn't get auto just to get a few tenths faster in the 1/4 mile, since it seems like that is the only reason you'd be doing so.

Well, I drove a 7A today. I will not be getting one. It took time to respond to inputs that rivaled my sluggish shifting abilities when not at WOT, and it was very indecisive compared to what I had hoped for. It's great, I'm sure, but not for me.

Even the sales rep looked at me kindof funny when I tipped into the throttle 1/3 at 30mph and the car revved, wound down, chose a gear, then selected another, and finally after whirring and bucking for about a full second and a half got with the program of accelerating moderately in the correct gear from 30mph. I can do better on my own.

Did you try it in manual mode?

Yes, I did not like the lag between input and shift with the paddles at partial throttle. It just didn't do it for me like the manual z's I have driven.

You can tune it to shift even faster and firmer than Nissan did (i.e., no need for an altered valve body). Also has the rev match, which is bad ***.

Before you make a decision you should see if you can find someone with a tuned 7AT.

I only have two slight complaints:

1. the 7AT will automatically downshift if you are in the wrong gear as you drop revs -- thus you an never really be in the wrong gear.

You can certain manually downshift faster than the ECU will if you are entering a corner and will need to slow down, but I'd like to have the option to be in the wrong gear if I'm not paying attention :p

Really, it's a minor complaint. From the standpoint of being immersed in driving/racing, it's pretty handy to never be in the wrong gear if you slow down.

Of course, it won't upshift unless you command it.

2. If you want to down shift more than 1 gear it will occasionally hang just a bit, but I think that's more a matter of the VVEL logic playing catch up than the trans slowing down, tho, so it's possible that the MT does a little bogging too at times.

Otherwise, it's brilliant!

Is the shift tuning you're talking about done with UpRev?

or just get a manual and call it a day since its obvious that's what you want (@importconvert) you seem like the kind of guy that would really only get an automatic if it was a built automatic for a drag car or in a DD to put around town.

I'm very happy with my 7AT. It's not as if the MT on this car is especially brilliant... I can always find something to nitpick about :p

Also, my auto is now tuned to shift even faster and firmer, so it's fantastic.

Having just learned how to drive manual recently, I sometimes wish my Z was a 6MT. Then I sit in traffic for like 90 mins and am glad I got the 7AT.

In particular, aside from (beginner-mode, imho) tracking my 7AT, I also come from a background of driving a stick (6-speed LS1, in a '99 Trans Am actually) for about a decade before I switched to the 7AT. My shifting necessity/habits haven't changed at all: I drive my 7AT in M-mode always, so I'm always picking my gear like I was used to doing driving manual.

To me, the main downside of crappy/traditional autos is just not being able to tell the car what gear you want to be in. The car *cannot know* what the appropriate gear is. A traditional auto only really has 3 inputs to its gear selection algorithm: RPM, Accel Pedal Position, and Current Speed. None of those account for all of the other factors that go into a manual gearing decision, most of which have to do with seeing/knowing what's on the road in front of you and knowing what you plan to do about it.

With an AT like our 7AT though, that factor's gone. You get to control the gearing all the time. And in that rare sacrilegious moment when you decide you just have to eat a burger in the car while driving somewhere, or let some chick drive your drunk *** home, you can flip it to D and act like a grandma.

All in all, I love the 7AT. As jnaut said: get a cooler on it before doing anything serious. Also, ignore the fact that the Service Manual says the fluid doesn't need to be replaced for life. I'd replace it every 20K miles or so on the street, or more often tracking.

It's not perfect, it's not a DSG/PDK -type thing, but for the price range it's a damn fine compromise and performs well IMHO.

I have never liked any automatic I have owned (probably my G20 has my least favorite automatic. It died once already, lol).

I figured I would give the 370Z a fair shake so I went and test drove it.

I didn't like it. Not that it was bad, I just did not like it at all. I will get the 6-speed. I was hoping I would like the 7A because it would be easier to get a loaded out 370Z in 7A because thats how most of the loaded cars are ordered in the US.

My main complaint was the lag-time between hitting the paddle and the transmission reacting when in manual mode when not going WOT. Is the delay a big deal? Probably not. It just irked me. I fully admit it is probably a personal bias against it.

No, the throttle is just as responsive in M-mode on 7AT as it is on a manual.

If you drive in D, it will shift down as far as it can given rev limits if you floor the pedal and hold it. There's always some pre-shift delay, but IMHO it's not really notable in the scenario.

I've had occasional shift flare on the 4->5 shift recently, but I think that had more to do with cold fluid and/or me experimenting with strange Torque Map settings for the 7AT in UpRev and/or perhaps I'm slightly underfilled on fluid. In any case 5, 6, and 7 are all overdrive gears anyways. You get into the low 120's mph at the top of 4th when you're on the throttle hard. I could see using maybe 5th on a very fast track on an NA 370, but never 6 or 7.

It does need to warm up a bit if it's cold out and/or the car is overnight cold before it shifts optimally. And it does need an additional cooler for serious track use.

It's a very instant connection just like a manual when it's in lockup mode (which is pretty much anytime you're not at extremely low revs, or not in the midst of a shift execution). For example, you can sit up around 4K RPM or whatever at maintenance throttle level and gently play the throttle up and down over the maintenance line and get very reactive feedback from the car shifting between slight accel and slight decel. And if you stomp it at that point, it's going to shoot off just like a manual would.

The lag reduces (a) as the AT warms up, and (b) as you use more RPMs and pedal input. If you're driving at 2-3K RPM going to the grocery store there's a lot more "lag" perception than when you're pushing the car all out.

Does the transmission have a temp gauge?

Without an additional oil-cooler for the engine, will the trans, or engine-oil overheat first? (Trying to gauge just how much a cooler for the AT is needed)

I used to drive about 90 minutes each way to/from work, Mon-Fri and hated it with my 6 puck clutch/8 lb flywheel. Went back to a more sensible clutch and an 11lb flywheel and had no issues in traffic. It's all about the technique! :happydance:

I don't really know what it feels like to drive a 6MT in traffic, but I can see why it would be really annoying/tiring.

its not exactly the most fun thing in the world, but its not THAT much worse than the overall fun of just sitting in traffic in general. even with an auto its not like 'OH YIPPEEE! traffic! i'm in my automatic this is gonna be a blast!' so its like... traffic sucks anyway... and with stick its slightly more annoying but really not so much if you are used to it.

Are you kidding? That's exactly what I say every time I'm stuck in traffic :rolleyes: :p

:icon18:

that is pretty much the only reason why i don't like the 7AT. its VERY indecisive. and sometimes you downshift it and it wont actually downshift for another full 5 seconds! :shakes head: then it starts jerking alot

yea that usually helps me get through most situations that require 5 seconds of waiting.

.... i mean :wtf2:

Hmmm, that's never happened with me.

at ftw

i wonder if there is a software change between the years. My AT hasnt hesitated on any shifts when in manual mode. Now when it is in auto mode it does seem jerky, and a little indecisive at times.

:gtfo2: :rofl2:

really? mines done that quite a few times. I was riding in my friend's 2010 and his auto tranny seems flawless. might be my car :confused:

Yeah, never happened once in the 20k miles I've driven it. Maybe you should take it to the dealer and get it checked out?

yeah ill probably bring it in sometime next week.

Uh... it really does shift as fast or faster than 95% of people can possibly clutch in clutch out... recorded with Osiris software. Also faster in average 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, which corroborate with that. Maybe you test drove one that isn't in good repair?

It's also influenced by trans fluid temp and throttle position, so if the fluid was cold and you didn't give it much pedal, it might feel a bit more granny shift-ish.

Also best to have VDC off.

And throttle response on both AT and MT needs to be tweaked.

Anyway, like I said, you can turn the shift speed and firmness waaaay up with Osiris.

I'd try a different one or see if someone around you has a tuned one to play with before you decide... That said, if you prefer a MT, go for it!

Don't keep it and D and wait for the car to downshift for you, there are paddles there for a reason.

Any downsides/risks involved in making the shift speed quicker with Osiris?

So far, none found by me or others who have done it.

Will definitely take a bit of getting used to tho'. I have it tuned to bang hard into gear above 1.5 K and 1/4 throttle or more, although it can be tuned however you like.

With remapped throttle responsiveness and retuned shifts it is a wild beast off the line now :eek:

And I thought it was a wild beast off the line before......wonder how much this will help my 1/4 mile time. I'm usually near the top of 4th gear by the time I get down the 1/4 mile.

Never seen this personally. The only time mine fails to downshift on command is when I click the button too early in a braking zone (RPMs aren't yet low enough to allow a downshift within the rev limit). At which point I try again a split second later and it goes.

Re: Osiris tweaks to the 7AT Torque Map: IMHO you should really only do that to adjust for engine torque, and even then on NA we're talking +10-15% over stock values at most. The guideline is to monitor slip under what should be lockup conditions (slip meaning RPMs vs wheel speed isn't stable), and tune the torque values just high enough to reliably kill slip.

When you set them massively higher than they need to be, it does exactly as you describe: every time you click the button it slams everything and kicks you in the butt. You're just causing excess wear all over your drivetrain, and more importantly for track stuff, you're upsetting the balance of the car. The last thing you want while upshifting out of a corner and still pushing to the side a bit is to suddenly shock the drivetrain and rear wheels. It may feel "faster", but the quick, smooth engage at a lower torque map value is better.