complete engine overhaul questions.

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

What...no, NA builds are crazy.

"I don't know Karate, but I do know Karazy and I will use it!" lol

KingZee · 11-26-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeterbop

"I don't know Karate, but I do know Karazy and I will use it!" lol

chii370 · 11-26-2011, 07:31 PM

well, skeeterbop has kinda hit the nail on the head with the first reply, the whole point here is no ones done it. yes it will be expensive, and it might not be for everyone. but all results are just based on speculation right now. and as for the TT SC claims i made, i have a friend that was in guam with me, had a white 370 base with a stage 2 GTM TT, and it DID NOT make claimed power.... not even close, not to mention other issues like overheating and a host of other annoying things. and i dont know how many "i bought a SC and im dissapointed" threads ive seen in the past 3 years all over the internet. TT.... not so much, but ive heard a TON of people bitching about there SC build. Your right, just as many are satisfied. Yes theres a lot of perfect builds out there that do exactly as intended. but you still keep missing the point to all this.

personally i drive my car EVERY DAY "except winter" and i plan to do so until the wheels fall off. dont even start a bitch fest about gas and all that... i dont care. point is, if your one of the people who blindly slapped on a TT or SC on a STOCK car your running a huge risk of shaving off years of its life and reliability. thats the difference between building a engine thats MADE to take the abuse opposed to forcing a stock engine to perform outside its normal specifications.

i can bet, ten years from now all these 500-600 hp TT 370s will all have to have rebuilt engines, transmissions and all kinds of other problems. lucky if it even hits 150k miles without blowing up. especially if you beat on it, and thats what happens 99% of the time dont lie. short term reliability has been rock solid so far i will give you that, but this engine is NOT designed for that and it will fail.... mark my words. building an engine up is by far not a cure all to that but it most definitely makes it far less likely to be a problem since its BUILT TO DO IT.

I dont feel like dealing with a blown engine 8 years from now when the car has half of its miles it could have. this is my daily driver, and some day i plan on passing it on to my son or daughter as our generations "muscle car" just like my dad did with me with a matador red with white stripe 1971 AMC javelin SST 401 fully restored. so i would rather not give it to them in useless pieces lol.

Red__Zed · 11-26-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

well, skeeterbop has kinda hit the nail on the head with the first reply, the whole point here is no ones done it. yes it will be expensive, and it might not be for everyone. but all results are just based on speculation right now. and as for the TT SC claims i made, i have a friend that was in guam with me, had a white 370 base with a stage 2 GTM TT, and it DID NOT make claimed power.... not even close, not to mention other issues like overheating and a host of other annoying things. and i dont know how many "i bought a SC and im dissapointed" threads ive seen in the past 3 years all over the internet. TT.... not so much, but ive heard a TON of people bitching about there SC build. Your right, just as many are satisfied. Yes theres a lot of perfect builds out there that do exactly as intended. but you still keep missing the point to all this.

Quote:

personally i drive my car EVERY DAY "except winter" and i plan to do so until the wheels fall off. dont even start a bitch fest about gas and all that... i dont care. point is, if your one of the people who blindly slapped on a TT or SC on a STOCK car your running a huge risk of shaving off years of its life and reliability. thats the difference between building a engine thats MADE to take the abuse opposed to forcing a stock engine to perform outside its normal specifications.

a built NA engine is generally going to be less reliable than a bolt-on FI engine. High performance NA builds mean constant high compression and an aggressive valvetrain. Bolt on boost is generally very reliable, provided the tune is decent.

Quote:

i can bet, ten years from now all these 500-600 hp TT 370s will all have to have rebuilt engines, transmissions and all kinds of other problems. lucky if it even hits 150k miles without blowing up. especially if you beat on it, and thats what happens 99% of the time dont lie. short term reliability has been rock solid so far i will give you that, but this engine is NOT designed for that and it will fail.... mark my words. building an engine up is by far not a cure all to that but it most definitely makes it far less likely to be a problem since its BUILT TO DO IT.

A proper, reliable build would require an incredible amount of R&D. The parts just aren't available for the VQ, and neither is the info.

Quote:

I dont feel like dealing with a blown engine 8 years from now when the car has half of its miles it could have. this is my daily driver, and some day i plan on passing it on to my son or daughter as our generations "muscle car" just like my dad did with me with a matador red with white stripe 1971 AMC javelin SST 401 fully restored. so i would rather not give it to them in useless pieces lol.

Your better option in that case is certainly not an NA build then.

In seriousness, there are forums dedicated to cars that came with the VQ35. It is worth taking a look to see what people have done with NA builds. The VQ series has a pretty tough time being taken to high levels of NA power, no matter what you do with the engine. There are a couple of reasons for it, mostly related to parts availability and flow issues. There are quite a few good resources out there, and Nissan has a couple of whitepapers available as well that discuss engineering tradeoffs that were made for the DE (and were kept in play for the VHR)

VQStryker · 11-26-2011, 07:55 PM

I feel its possible and "tuning" vvel is not nessesary, general timing and AFR should be fine. don't forget higher compression pistions. As for fuel, IDK if it will be possible on 93 octane but as for the theory of making approximatly 500whp, I would'nt look past it.

GTM Performance Engineering 1000HP MAF CALIBRATIONN -ANOTHER MILE STONE

^^^vvel not tuned/broken....whatever you want to call it

pulleys, flywheel, 4.5 stroker kit, ported heads, oversized valves, stronger head studs the list goes on I think it could happen.

3.7= .62L per cylinder

4.5= .75L per cylinder

the 300zx TT made 300 HP (N/A 220HP)

nissan made the 370z N/A 332HP

So theoretically .7L increase made the new Z 112HP, so a .8 increase should net a total of approximatly 440HP from the 4.5 stroker kit alone. higher compression pistons, ported heads, flywheel, pullies, oversized valves, larger intake cams........etc etc etc..... COULD be possible chii be ready for a headache bud.

theDreamer · 11-27-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

well, skeeterbop has kinda hit the nail on the head with the first reply, the whole point here is no ones done it. yes it will be expensive, and it might not be for everyone. but all results are just based on speculation right now. and as for the TT SC claims i made, i have a friend that was in guam with me, had a white 370 base with a stage 2 GTM TT, and it DID NOT make claimed power.... not even close, not to mention other issues like overheating and a host of other annoying things. and i dont know how many "i bought a SC and im dissapointed" threads ive seen in the past 3 years all over the internet. TT.... not so much, but ive heard a TON of people bitching about there SC build. Your right, just as many are satisfied. Yes theres a lot of perfect builds out there that do exactly as intended. but you still keep missing the point to all this.

Did your friend have the proper cooling options needed? The VQ motors run a bit hot, especially the 3.7L, also what type of dyno did he run on? Did he do a full baseline so he can do a delta comparison, just throwing it on and saying I only made 300whp means nothing if bone stock he was only getting 180whp or something. Really need more facts on your friends built to understand why it was unable to meet your 'requirements.' Also, how was the car tuned?

Please provide me with some threads where people are unhappy with their SC, either Stillen or GTM. Stillen had a few issues early on but they have done a lot of make customers happy and resolve any tuning issues. What point am I missing, you keep just hammering on about how you think it should be something but you have not provided any facts on what you claim, just your opinion.

personally i drive my car EVERY DAY "except winter" and i plan to do so until the wheels fall off. dont even start a bitch fest about gas and all that... i dont care. point is, if your one of the people who blindly slapped on a TT or SC on a STOCK car your running a huge risk of shaving off years of its life and reliability. thats the difference between building a engine thats MADE to take the abuse opposed to forcing a stock engine to perform outside its normal specifications.

You are running the risk of blowing your block up just as fast if not faster with your built NA motor. Tearing open the block and replacing parts will just as easily shred the motor, especially if you are the first and testing parts. I daily drive my Z, honestly if my motor blows up after 8 years it survived plenty. Again you are 'assuming' a lot of information, people just 'blindly slapping' a TT or SC, most if not all builds I have seen online and in person are well thought out. From cooling to engine supporting mods, people are taking a lot of precautions, mainly because we have years of VQ35 motor history to work off of. The 350z is a value asset in knowing how the motor will survive FI to NA builds.

Do you know what your engine will be made to take when you build it?

i can bet, ten years from now all these 500-600 hp TT 370s will all have to have rebuilt engines, transmissions and all kinds of other problems. lucky if it even hits 150k miles without blowing up. especially if you beat on it, and thats what happens 99% of the time dont lie. short term reliability has been rock solid so far i will give you that, but this engine is NOT designed for that and it will fail.... mark my words. building an engine up is by far not a cure all to that but it most definitely makes it far less likely to be a problem since its BUILT TO DO IT.

I dont feel like dealing with a blown engine 8 years from now when the car has half of its miles it could have. this is my daily driver, and some day i plan on passing it on to my son or daughter as our generations "muscle car" just like my dad did with me with a matador red with white stripe 1971 AMC javelin SST 401 fully restored. so i would rather not give it to them in useless pieces lol.

Passing on a car is great, though add boost or even a built NA motor will not be the determining factor in if it will survive the ages. How you treat the car and support it throughout these years will, I have seen 350z motors with stock blocks go for over 100k miles boosted making 450whp (DE motor which was good for that motor). They tear the motor down and it still looks great, why? Because the owner takes care of the car, from pre-track work to post-track, to proper maintenance to understanding the motor.

You really need to take some time to read more from this forum and my350z, a lot of great information on the VQ motor and what it is capable of.

11-26-2011, 07:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
VQStryker Track Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Texas Age: 37 Posts: 659 Drives: :( Rep Power: 17	I feel its possible and "tuning" vvel is not nessesary, general timing and AFR should be fine. don't forget higher compression pistions. As for fuel, IDK if it will be possible on 93 octane but as for the theory of making approximatly 500whp, I would'nt look past it. GTM Performance Engineering 1000HP MAF CALIBRATIONN -ANOTHER MILE STONE ^^^vvel not tuned/broken....whatever you want to call it pulleys, flywheel, 4.5 stroker kit, ported heads, oversized valves, stronger head studs the list goes on I think it could happen. 3.7= .62L per cylinder 4.5= .75L per cylinder the 300zx TT made 300 HP (N/A 220HP) nissan made the 370z N/A 332HP So theoretically .7L increase made the new Z 112HP, so a .8 increase should net a total of approximatly 440HP from the 4.5 stroker kit alone. higher compression pistons, ported heads, flywheel, pullies, oversized valves, larger intake cams........etc etc etc..... COULD be possible chii be ready for a headache bud. Last edited by VQStryker; 11-26-2011 at 10:58 PM.

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11-26-2011, 07:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 18	well, skeeterbop has kinda hit the nail on the head with the first reply, the whole point here is no ones done it. yes it will be expensive, and it might not be for everyone. but all results are just based on speculation right now. and as for the TT SC claims i made, i have a friend that was in guam with me, had a white 370 base with a stage 2 GTM TT, and it DID NOT make claimed power.... not even close, not to mention other issues like overheating and a host of other annoying things. and i dont know how many "i bought a SC and im dissapointed" threads ive seen in the past 3 years all over the internet. TT.... not so much, but ive heard a TON of people bitching about there SC build. Your right, just as many are satisfied. Yes theres a lot of perfect builds out there that do exactly as intended. but you still keep missing the point to all this. personally i drive my car EVERY DAY "except winter" and i plan to do so until the wheels fall off. dont even start a bitch fest about gas and all that... i dont care. point is, if your one of the people who blindly slapped on a TT or SC on a STOCK car your running a huge risk of shaving off years of its life and reliability. thats the difference between building a engine thats MADE to take the abuse opposed to forcing a stock engine to perform outside its normal specifications. i can bet, ten years from now all these 500-600 hp TT 370s will all have to have rebuilt engines, transmissions and all kinds of other problems. lucky if it even hits 150k miles without blowing up. especially if you beat on it, and thats what happens 99% of the time dont lie. short term reliability has been rock solid so far i will give you that, but this engine is NOT designed for that and it will fail.... mark my words. building an engine up is by far not a cure all to that but it most definitely makes it far less likely to be a problem since its BUILT TO DO IT. I dont feel like dealing with a blown engine 8 years from now when the car has half of its miles it could have. this is my daily driver, and some day i plan on passing it on to my son or daughter as our generations "muscle car" just like my dad did with me with a matador red with white stripe 1971 AMC javelin SST 401 fully restored. so i would rather not give it to them in useless pieces lol.