Let's talk octane...

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

Gotcha. I've run FI before, but I've never tuned for anything above what I could get at the local pump.

If I were running FI, I'd make sure my system I had could handle multiple tunes on the fly, based off boost/octane. That way I can change to whatever I have available at the time...

Fuel saver tunes are nice, too

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Since larger injectors will come with any Z TT kit, could you theoretically convert to E85 at the time you went TT? Or would you need even larger injectors than the ones that come with the kit being the kit has already compensated for the extra fuel needed for TT?

Depends on the injectors, but I'd hazard to guess you'd need to go even BIGGER. I dont know how close we are to maxing out the stock injectors with only basic breathing mods off hand, but I doubt any FI kits are going to come with HUGE injectors - just enough to handle the max HP of the kit. Whereas with an E85 setup, you'd need injectors 30% bigger than THAT, really.

Also, cant forget the fuel pump...one that can at least keep up w/ those injectors...

XwChriswX · 11-06-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Depends on the injectors, but I'd hazard to guess you'd need to go even BIGGER. I dont know how close we are to maxing out the stock injectors with only basic breathing mods off hand, but I doubt any FI kits are going to come with HUGE injectors - just enough to handle the max HP of the kit. Whereas with an E85 setup, you'd need injectors 30% bigger than THAT, really.

Also, cant forget the fuel pump...one that can at least keep up w/ those injectors...

Of course, once you know how much you'll be 'injecting' then you know how much fuel you need, in terms there is your pump size required so you get that as well. Interesting... Soooo much involved with just switching gas lol.

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Of course, once you know how much you'll be 'injecting' then you know how much fuel you need, in terms there is your pump size required so you get that as well. Interesting... Soooo much involved with just switching gas lol.

Theres a lot of science behind setting up a proper fuel system. You'd think you can just add a pump, but sometimes even just one pump isnt enough for an E85 setup. I should see if I can find my friends crazy *** home-made pump setup for his garage built, TT 427. He already had a 1100HP/1000Tq twin turbo Silverado, and sold it...

Methodical4u · 11-06-2011, 03:40 PM

so back to my other question... since the VVEL cannot be changed, can the timing of the engine still be changed? Basically i'm saying... if I wanted to run race gas for a run down the 1/4 and I needed to tune for it, can the timing be advanced due to the higher octane to maximize power? OR is that all part of the VVEL?

XwChriswX · 11-06-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Theres a lot of science behind setting up a proper fuel system. You'd think you can just add a pump, but sometimes even just one pump isnt enough for an E85 setup. I should see if I can find my friends crazy *** home-made pump setup for his garage built, TT 427. He already had a 1100HP/1000Tq twin turbo Silverado, and sold it...

When you get into a situation like that, do you have 2 pumps in line with eachother, a smaller one to feed the larger one? Or would that give you starvation issues? Would you instead have 2 separate fuel lines, 1 for each bank with their own pump/filter?

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

When you get into a situation like that, do you have 2 pumps in line with eachother, a smaller one to feed the larger one? Or would that give you starvation issues? Would you instead have 2 separate fuel lines, 1 for each bank with their own pump/filter?

There's many ways to handle it. Sometimes 2 inline pumps is one way. Other times, 2 pumps maintaining pressure is another way, sometimes multiple fuel lines going into rails is another. Like I said, lots of science

Red__Zed · 11-06-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

so back to my other question... since the VVEL cannot be changed, can the timing of the engine still be changed? Basically i'm saying... if I wanted to run race gas for a run down the 1/4 and I needed to tune for it, can the timing be advanced due to the higher octane to maximize power? OR is that all part of the VVEL?

You can advance timing within certain limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Since larger injectors will come with any Z TT kit, could you theoretically convert to E85 at the time you went TT? Or would you need even larger injectors than the ones that come with the kit being the kit has already compensated for the extra fuel needed for TT?

like most things, it depends on what you are doing. the other thing you have to watch for when setting up for e85 is corrosion in your fuel system, which often requires running different components than what TT kits come with (not that familiar with Z kits though)

XwChriswX · 11-06-2011, 03:45 PM

I dunno, but all of it sounds really cool, the R&D of it.

Would be crazy to see.

Would the VQ37 be a platform that you'd wanna see in E85, or the fact that it's not boosted and VVEL limitations would make it a waste of time?

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

I dunno, but all of it sounds really cool, the R&D of it.

Would be crazy to see.

Would the VQ37 be a platform that you'd wanna see in E85, or the fact that it's not boosted and VVEL limitations would make it a waste of time?

VQ37 in stock form, N/A with E85 is a waste of time, IMHO.

Boosted however, you can get gains. But I question the worthiness of such gains other than flexing the e-penis size...

XwChriswX · 11-06-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

VQ37 in stock form, N/A with E85 is a waste of time, IMHO.

Boosted however, you can get gains. But I question the worthiness of such gains other than flexing the e-penis size...

This is what I was thinking... You'd need a huge budget to R&D a worthwhile E85 TT kit for the Z I'm guessing...

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

This is what I was thinking... You'd need a huge budget to R&D a worthwhile E85 TT kit for the Z I'm guessing...

Why do you say that? Bigger injectors, good fuel setup to feed it....thats it. The rest stays the same really...

XwChriswX · 11-06-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Why do you say that? Bigger injectors, good fuel setup to feed it....thats it. The rest stays the same really...

Hmm. I was thinking there would be more involved, say different sized turbo's due to smaller volume of gasses?? I dunno...

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 03:59 PM

Found it...

http://www.neufamily.org/images/67novagallery/

MightyBobo · 11-06-2011, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

Hmm. I was thinking there would be more involved, say different sized turbo's due to smaller volume of gasses?? I dunno...

Nope...the amount of air burned for the power remains the same really. Just the amount of fuel required to ignite it properly changes.

11-06-2011, 03:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
XwChriswX WFLYIDNNE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In The Fastlane Posts: 50,648 Drives: 02 GDB WRX Rep Power: 451	I dunno, but all of it sounds really cool, the R&D of it. Would be crazy to see. Would the VQ37 be a platform that you'd wanna see in E85, or the fact that it's not boosted and VVEL limitations would make it a waste of time? __________________ Bonnie - Stage 2, Audio build coming this fall! R.I.P. Abby 3/29/10 - 3/30/14

11-06-2011, 03:59 PM	#29 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	Found it... http://www.neufamily.org/images/67novagallery/ __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

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11-06-2011, 03:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 15	so back to my other question... since the VVEL cannot be changed, can the timing of the engine still be changed? Basically i'm saying... if I wanted to run race gas for a run down the 1/4 and I needed to tune for it, can the timing be advanced due to the higher octane to maximize power? OR is that all part of the VVEL?