Throttle Response: DE/HR vs VHR

clintfocus · 10-04-2011, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

I feel like an LS6 swap is the cure for this throttle issue.

this

Quote:

Originally Posted by roplusbee

Wow. So wassup with the UPREV throttle tweak?

my car was just dyno tuned using Uprev from Shawn at Church automotive here in socal, AEM intakes, the Motordyne intake manifold, and Uprev tune was all done at the same time. The first thing i noticed was the much improved throttle response

DIGItonium · 10-04-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintfocus

The first thing i noticed was the much improved throttle response

Can you get clarification whether the throttle tables were modified? IIRC, Sam@GTM left the throttle table alone probably for liability reasons.

clintfocus · 10-04-2011, 04:42 PM

^ill ask for sure, i wasnt there during the tuning, since Dsport did the installs and took the car to get tuned

johnwigs · 10-05-2011, 08:15 PM

??? one main difference (besides the VVEL) between the VHR and a DE that would affect "throttle response" is plenum space... the VVEL system keeps the throttle body open and controls air with the VVEL actuator (once engine is warm and is in closed loop) and that will eliminate the "stored air" that is in a plenum... just some food for thought

Lug · 10-06-2011, 10:41 AM

I once drove a 2004.5 DE 350Z. The throttle response was............flawless.

roplusbee · 10-06-2011, 10:58 AM

Any solutions yet? This is something that I would like to address, but not a necessity........

DIGItonium · 10-06-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roplusbee

Any solutions yet? This is something that I would like to address, but not a necessity........

wstar is currently messing with the throttle tables with his UpRev tune. One thing's for sure is that he is able to achieve 100% throttle. I don't think my tune comes with any modifications to throttle map or ability to max it out.

MJB · 10-10-2011, 05:55 PM

Interested in results. I to have noticed my 05 350z had better throttle response compared to my 370z. I'm hoping with HFC's, an exhaust and tune will cure that.

Kingbaby · 10-10-2011, 06:03 PM

I get a warm tingly feeling knowing you guys are trying to get the most out of the 370Z...

DIGItonium · 10-10-2011, 08:17 PM

LOL... I seriously think there are times the ECU is refusing to open up regardless of accelerator position, which won't even wake up the turbos! >.<

T_K · 10-12-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwigs

??? one main difference (besides the VVEL) between the VHR and a DE that would affect "throttle response" is plenum space... the VVEL system keeps the throttle body open and controls air with the VVEL actuator (once engine is warm and is in closed loop) and that will eliminate the "stored air" that is in a plenum... just some food for thought

Theoretically the response should be greater/better with the VVEL actuating cylinder filling rather than the relatively distant throttle plates. Plenum is normally under vacuum until WOT, there would be a delay in the higher ambient pressure air making it to the valve relative to the plenum already being full with the TBs already open.

Maybe the VVEL actuator just doesn't move as quickly as a throttle plate? Comparatively, I'd imagine the VVEL mechanism has a lot more "stuff" to rotate, more mass, inertia, etc... (This is just a guess)

DIGItonium · 10-12-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_K

...Plenum is normally under vacuum until WOT...

One of my friends was telling me the same thing. So if I floor it in 2nd from 1.5k versus 3k, there's a slight difference in how long it takes to ramp up to redline. He mentioned about the vacuum and delay.

wstar found out that disabling electronic throttle control makes it a blast to drive the car because the response is very fast, but you lose the safety features like VDC, electronic rev limiter, and S-Mode. It caused his 7AT to shift funny.

B&W_Evader · 10-13-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

One of my friends was telling me the same thing. So if I floor it in 2nd from 1.5k versus 3k, there's a slight difference in how long it takes to ramp up to redline. He mentioned about the vacuum and delay.

wstar found out that disabling electronic throttle control makes it a blast to drive the car because the response is very fast, but you lose the safety features like VDC, electronic rev limiter, and S-Mode. It caused his 7AT to shift funny.

LOL Your all full of good ideas! Floor it at 1.5k and disconecting the electronic throttle control on a drive by wire car. Only a guy who has "The Bright One" on his avatar could think of such unique ideas!

DIGItonium · 10-13-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&W_Evader

LOL Your all full of good ideas! Floor it at 1.5k and disconecting the electronic throttle control on a drive by wire car. Only a guy who has "The Bright One" on his avatar could think of such unique ideas!

I think I got your sarcasm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah, in general (not just our car, all modern drive-by-wire cars) the pedal is taken as "human intent" to the ECU, and the ECU controls throttle based on a wide variety of factors. The throttle map we have definitely does something, but obviously we lack full control without VVEL tables as well.

If you want to experiment, you can completely disable Electronic Throttle Control. At the bottom of the list of editable stuff in the UpRev Rom Editor, there's an "ETC: On/Off" setting. I've set it to off before, and when you do that the car very literally maps 1:1 between the gas pedal and the "throttle" (although still, I imagine it's more VVEL than the manifold butterfly).

Throttle response with ETC Off is awesome, the problem is it kills a lot of other functionality on the car too. You'll lose cruise control (who cares), you probably lose the (safer) Throttle Rev Limit, having to just rely on the fuel cut rev limit, and most importantly you lose Synchro-Rev-Match.

On a track 6MT car, for someone who disables SRM to heel-toe anyways, ETC Off might actually be a viable option. On my 7AT it's a no-go though, the transmission can't execute downshifts properly without its own equivalent of SRM.

oro · 10-13-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&W_Evader

LOL Your all full of good ideas! Floor it at 1.5k and disconecting the electronic throttle control on a drive by wire car. Only a guy who has "The Bright One" on his avatar could think of such unique ideas!

:shrug: Doesn't sound too.bad to me. I shut Vdc off everytime i get in the car, being manual with no SRM I shift before redline and know when to downshift. I'd give it a try to have the response my old DE had.

10-06-2011, 10:41 AM	#20 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 20	I once drove a 2004.5 DE 350Z. The throttle response was............flawless. __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs Last edited by Lug; 10-06-2011 at 03:52 PM.

10-06-2011, 10:58 AM	#21 (permalink)
roplusbee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 2,360 Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO Rep Power: 23	Any solutions yet? This is something that I would like to address, but not a necessity........ __________________ 2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift \| UPREV \| F.I. \| Greddy \| Competition Clutch \| Injector Dynamics \| Aeromotive \| Pioneer \| JL

10-10-2011, 08:17 PM	#25 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	LOL... I seriously think there are times the ECU is refusing to open up regardless of accelerator position, which won't even wake up the turbos! >.< __________________

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10-04-2011, 04:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 39 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 16	^ill ask for sure, i wasnt there during the tuning, since Dsport did the installs and took the car to get tuned

10-05-2011, 08:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
johnwigs Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: sandyeggo Posts: 7 Drives: hakosuka Rep Power: 16	??? one main difference (besides the VVEL) between the VHR and a DE that would affect "throttle response" is plenum space... the VVEL system keeps the throttle body open and controls air with the VVEL actuator (once engine is warm and is in closed loop) and that will eliminate the "stored air" that is in a plenum... just some food for thought

10-10-2011, 05:55 PM	#23 (permalink)
MJB A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tacoma, WA Age: 42 Posts: 1,498 Drives: a POS truck Rep Power: 496	Interested in results. I to have noticed my 05 350z had better throttle response compared to my 370z. I'm hoping with HFC's, an exhaust and tune will cure that.