Waiting to Inhale VQ37VHR tuning /modablity

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

The Stig says the Z is faster

The who?

Cmike2780 · 08-31-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

The who?

Red__Zed · 08-31-2011, 01:42 PM

Ugh. Stock class isn't stock. That's the whole point. Z's with stock tires compete with wrx's with stock tires (in numbers, not class). The class is based on how the car does with the mild stock class mods.

Beyond that, it makes more sense to pay attention to a change in class than absolute class...

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Ugh. Stock class isn't stock. That's the whole point. Z's with stock tires compete with wrx's with stock tires (in numbers, not class). The class is based on how the car does with the mild stock class mods.

Beyond that, it makes more sense to pay attention to a change in class than absolute class...

I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is that the WRX (a car that I like a lot) stock for stock is not in fact in the same league as the 370... numbers show this. You can put down some magazine numbers and thats fine, but when you have one source and then another and then another it gets pretty hard to deny IMO anyway.

I also stand by the fact that the WRX still has much computer help from the SAWD system and even though based on stock the Z is still faster IMO, the fact remains that the WRX SHOULD be faster anyway... it's lighter and so the power can be very consistant during corning ... no wheelspin, the torque is always being distributed to optimize speed and therefore lap times.

Either way, fun debate, we should just start a thread on this.

red6spd · 08-31-2011, 04:10 PM

Red_Zed is in his 20's, he is not old.

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

Red_Zed is in his 20's, he is not old.

ouch... so since i'm in my 30's I am !!!!

red6spd · 08-31-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

ouch... so since i'm in my 30's I am !!!!

LOL, y? He called you old?

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

LOL, y? He called you old?

no... you said that he wasn't old... he's in his 20's lol

red6spd · 08-31-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

no... you said that he wasn't old... he's in his 20's lol

Oh, you did the little guy with question marks on top so I thought you where asking a question LOL.

b1adesofcha0s · 08-31-2011, 08:33 PM

Ummm the Z needs the V12 from the Lamborghini Aventador ==> winning!

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Ummm the Z needs the V12 from the Lamborghini Aventador ==> winning!

Like I said and to finally get back on topic... i'm happy with the car the way it is... sure there are a few things i'd change... adding more torque would be a plus for one. For two, a TT option would have been cool as I said earlier in the thread, but it would be SOOOOOOO expensive and IMO people would be doing all kinds of damage to these cars.

The car isn't slow, it's the fastest stock Z in the history of the car and we all know this.

I think that ultimately just more tuning options and more aftermarket options would make those who aren't completely happy with the car a lot more happy. Then again like I said before, if 400 whp was as much as the car would make NA, people would complain they wanted 425 and then 450 and then 500... where does it stop? Then people make jokes about modding being addictive... it actually is if you ask me.

Red__Zed · 08-31-2011, 08:58 PM

First off, there's a little bit of confusion going around about a lot of things, so I'm going to try to clear that up.

For the purpose of track discussion, stock-vs-stock is kind of pointless. First off, the Z can't run stock, so it is really not in it's favor to do that. Second, no one runs a completely stock car. Things like brakes, tires, and a reflash are a pretty safe bet, and I think allowing that and a oil cooler makes sense. So let's assume all the cars are running a lightweight set of rims that fit comfortably on the car in question-- something like the beefed up setup most of you are running on your Z's. Add track pads, etc, and give the cars a reflash. You're talking a very different game in this case from cars that are artificially limited by various things from the factory (less extreme version of the oil issues on the Z). You can uncork 30+AWHP with a $300 AP on a Subie, and the tire difference is huge too. The fact that the RE050a's grip better than SP's doesn't make the Z a better car. Part of the reason the Nismo tests so much better (besides just wider tires, etc) is the superior Advan's it comes with.

For the stock classing on autocross, you do need to understand there are a lot of other factors that come into play, like rules that benefit certain cars. Also, it's less important what a car runs in, but it is big deal when it gets moved. It means people are running the car, and failing-- and it usually means skilled people are giving it a go.
With the Z, the Nismo is basically allowed to run much fatter tires than anyone else, and in AutoX, that is huge. So Stock classing can give some misleading results-- from things like Nismos running 305s and WRXs running 245 series tires. That alone can be 5-6 seconds on most courses, and it's not really representative of the car's performance.

In regards to VIR, certain tracks benefit certain cars.
A car with good aero and a decent trap speed is usually going to dominate at VIR. At Here, the Nismo having an oil cooler is also going to be a huge benefit, since most cars are cooking it at the end of that straight--kind of an unfair benefit. Consider it offset by the fact that C&D maybe didn't get in a killer lap (though they claim they did).
It has always frustrated me that C&D uses VIR for their Lightning Lap...I wish they would pick a more balanced track. If they chose, say, Summit, the Subaru would probably be tearing things up--which is also not representative of performance. So quoting those numbers is pretty misleading. Allowing $500 to be spent on cars, (oil cooler for the Z, tune for mustang), a V6 mustang will put several seconds on the Z, and Jared will tell you that's not possible...

Methodical4u · 08-31-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

First off, there's a little bit of confusion going around about a lot of things, so I'm going to try to clear that up.

For the purpose of track discussion, stock-vs-stock is kind of pointless. First off, the Z can't run stock, so it is really not in it's favor to do that. Second, no one runs a completely stock car. Things like brakes, tires, and a reflash are a pretty safe bet, and I think allowing that and a oil cooler makes sense. So let's assume all the cars are running a lightweight set of rims that fit comfortably on the car in question-- something like the beefed up setup most of you are running on your Z's. Add track pads, etc, and give the cars a reflash. You're talking a very different game in this case from cars that are artificially limited by various things from the factory (less extreme version of the oil issues on the Z). You can uncork 30+AWHP with a $300 AP on a Subie, and the tire difference is huge too. The fact that the RE050a's grip better than SP's doesn't make the Z a better car. Part of the reason the Nismo tests so much better (besides just wider tires, etc) is the superior Advan's it comes with.

For the stock classing on autocross, you do need to understand there are a lot of other factors that come into play, like rules that benefit certain cars. Also, it's less important what a car runs in, but it is big deal when it gets moved. It means people are running the car, and failing-- and it usually means skilled people are giving it a go.
With the Z, the Nismo is basically allowed to run much fatter tires than anyone else, and in AutoX, that is huge. So Stock classing can give some misleading results-- from things like Nismos running 305s and WRXs running 245 series tires. That alone can be 5-6 seconds on most courses, and it's not really representative of the car's performance.

In regards to VIR, certain tracks benefit certain cars.
A car with good aero and a decent trap speed is usually going to dominate at VIR. At Here, the Nismo having an oil cooler is also going to be a huge benefit, since most cars are cooking it at the end of that straight--kind of an unfair benefit. Consider it offset by the fact that C&D maybe didn't get in a killer lap (though they claim they did).
It has always frustrated me that C&D uses VIR for their Lightning Lap...I wish they would pick a more balanced track. If they chose, say, Summit, the Subaru would probably be tearing things up--which is also not representative of performance. So quoting those numbers is pretty misleading. Allowing $500 to be spent on cars, (oil cooler for the Z, tune for mustang), a V6 mustang will put several seconds on the Z, and Jared will tell you that's not possible...

The problem is again... that you can pick a more "balanced" track basically meaning one that has less top end since the Subaru will get outrun badly by a Z in that area is that THAT track is now more favorable to the Suby because of more turns, and many of those turns that again a car with S-AWC or SAWD will benefit greatly ... like the Z's tires.... so while the Z can get wheelspin, the little Suby can just be getting through the turns easily because a computer is doing all of the work and the work it's not doing, the AWD system is.

There is really no fairness in trying to contest a RWD Z to an AWD turbocharged car. Yes, you can get 30 whp JUST from a tune on a Subaru.. I don't know on a stock 370 what you would get, but it aint that.

Anyway, there are benefits to each car... IMO the wider tires and them being Advans is equal to the WRX being a computer controlled AWD car. That's my opinion at least.

And a V6 Mustang? Come on man.

Red__Zed · 08-31-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

The problem is again... that you can pick a more "balanced" track basically meaning one that has less top end since the Subaru will get outrun badly by a Z in that area is that THAT track is now more favorable to the Suby because of more turns, and many of those turns that again a car with S-AWC or SAWD will benefit greatly ... like the Z's tires.... so while the Z can get wheelspin, the little Suby can just be getting through the turns easily because a computer is doing all of the work and the work it's not doing, the AWD system is.

There is really no fairness in trying to contest a RWD Z to an AWD turbocharged car. Yes, you can get 30 whp JUST from a tune on a Subaru.. I don't know on a stock 370 what you would get, but it aint that.

Anyway, there are benefits to each car... IMO the wider tires and them being Advans is equal to the WRX being a computer controlled AWD car. That's my opinion at least.

And a V6 Mustang? Come on man.

I said that. Summit point is an example of a track better for the subie. But doing something like Laguna Seca would be great-- it's an epic track, and I care about LS lap times.

Again, they are different cars, but they do "compete" in that people cross shop them. People that plan on tracking their cars almost universally pick something else.

The V6 beats the Z on most US tracks, just so you know. It's actually faster than the GT on tight tracks, and is usually just a few seconds behind on other tracks. With the limiter removed (top speed is 117 for insurance reasons), it puts .5-1.5 seconds on the Z around VIR.

red6spd · 08-31-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I said that. Summit point is an example of a track better for the subie. But doing something like Laguna Seca would be great-- it's an epic track, and I care about LS lap times.

Again, they are different cars, but they do "compete" in that people cross shop them. People that plan on tracking their cars almost universally pick something else.

The V6 beats the Z on most US tracks, just so you know. It's actually faster than the GT on tight tracks, and is usually just a few seconds behind on other tracks. With the limiter removed (top speed is 117 for insurance reasons), it puts .5-1.5 seconds on the Z around VIR.

Where are you getting all this infor?? The V6 Stang is faster on most US tracks then the Z?? I'm just curious? How do you know the V6 Stang puts .5-1.5 seconds on the Z at VIR?? CarAndDriver never tested one that was modded with a tune.

08-31-2011, 04:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
red6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 3,277 Drives: 2010 Z Coupe M6 SPT Rep Power: 23	Red_Zed is in his 20's, he is not old. __________________ 2010 Base+Sport 6spd: Stillen G3, FI Non-Resonated CBE, FI Non-Resonated Test Pipes, UpRev Tuned, Custom 24R Oil Cooler, JDM Rear Fog-OEM Harness. ???Whp ???WTQ (Will find out come spring time)

08-31-2011, 08:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 143	Ummm the Z needs the V12 from the Lamborghini Aventador ==> winning! __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Waiting and waiting	Terry Repol	New Forum Member	8	08-04-2021 07:00 PM
.....what everyone has been waiting for.......... New vossen C O N C A V E -- VVS-CV2	jav@vossen	Wheels & Tires	90	11-16-2010 08:49 PM
What to do while you are waiting for your Z to get TT	xiven	The Lounge (Off Topic)	22	02-22-2010 01:53 PM
Still waiting...	Randy	New Forum Member	15	07-26-2009 07:45 PM
Waiting	Robert Z	New Forum Member	3	03-27-2009 08:55 AM

08-31-2011, 01:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 121	Ugh. Stock class isn't stock. That's the whole point. Z's with stock tires compete with wrx's with stock tires (in numbers, not class). The class is based on how the car does with the mild stock class mods. Beyond that, it makes more sense to pay attention to a change in class than absolute class...

08-31-2011, 08:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 121	First off, there's a little bit of confusion going around about a lot of things, so I'm going to try to clear that up. For the purpose of track discussion, stock-vs-stock is kind of pointless. First off, the Z can't run stock, so it is really not in it's favor to do that. Second, no one runs a completely stock car. Things like brakes, tires, and a reflash are a pretty safe bet, and I think allowing that and a oil cooler makes sense. So let's assume all the cars are running a lightweight set of rims that fit comfortably on the car in question-- something like the beefed up setup most of you are running on your Z's. Add track pads, etc, and give the cars a reflash. You're talking a very different game in this case from cars that are artificially limited by various things from the factory (less extreme version of the oil issues on the Z). You can uncork 30+AWHP with a $300 AP on a Subie, and the tire difference is huge too. The fact that the RE050a's grip better than SP's doesn't make the Z a better car. Part of the reason the Nismo tests so much better (besides just wider tires, etc) is the superior Advan's it comes with. For the stock classing on autocross, you do need to understand there are a lot of other factors that come into play, like rules that benefit certain cars. Also, it's less important what a car runs in, but it is big deal when it gets moved. It means people are running the car, and failing-- and it usually means skilled people are giving it a go. With the Z, the Nismo is basically allowed to run much fatter tires than anyone else, and in AutoX, that is huge. So Stock classing can give some misleading results-- from things like Nismos running 305s and WRXs running 245 series tires. That alone can be 5-6 seconds on most courses, and it's not really representative of the car's performance. In regards to VIR, certain tracks benefit certain cars. A car with good aero and a decent trap speed is usually going to dominate at VIR. At Here, the Nismo having an oil cooler is also going to be a huge benefit, since most cars are cooking it at the end of that straight--kind of an unfair benefit. Consider it offset by the fact that C&D maybe didn't get in a killer lap (though they claim they did). It has always frustrated me that C&D uses VIR for their Lightning Lap...I wish they would pick a more balanced track. If they chose, say, Summit, the Subaru would probably be tearing things up--which is also not representative of performance. So quoting those numbers is pretty misleading. Allowing $500 to be spent on cars, (oil cooler for the Z, tune for mustang), a V6 mustang will put several seconds on the Z, and Jared will tell you that's not possible...