[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by JARblue

Sub par performance? with that

The MT is just as good at the AT minus a few hydraulic issues that are easily remedied. The AT is slightly better in some aspects, and the MT is better in some aspects. AT has imperceptibly quicker shifts in stock form; MT can hold way more power in stock form.

Terrible analogy I would say it's more like comparing a plain jane calculator (simple - MT) to a graphing calculator (more technologically complex - AT) when all you're doing is addition/subtraction. The both do exactly what you need them to do just fine. The graphing calculator might be slightly faster due to the internal components, but you won't notice anything significant.

the only aspect that the MT wins is the initial holding power of TQ over the AT. however any and everyone who goes over said power limit ends up changing to a bigger/stronger clutch regardless. soooo it's not really a strong argument unless you then go to compare prices. yes a MT can be upgraded for slightly less money. but that is due to the fact most places pretty much just build the AT to be good for 1000hp which costs a bit more.

and yes my analogy was meant to be the way it was lol obviously yours was literal and more accurate but that wasn't my end goal......I was just bashing

[JARblue]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

the only aspect that the MT wins is the initial holding power of TQ over the AT. however any and everyone who goes over said power limit ends up changing to a bigger/stronger clutch regardless. soooo it's not really a strong argument unless you then go to compare prices. yes a MT can be upgraded for slightly less money. but that is due to the fact most places pretty much just build the AT to be good for 1000hp which costs a bit more.

and yes my analogy was meant to be the way it was lol obviously yours was literal and more accurate but that wasn't my end goal......I was just bashing

Slightly less money? That upgrade cost for a new clutch is less than the extra cost for an AT from the dealer. So not only do you have to pay extra for the AT initially, you have to pay to upgrade it to 1000hp before you can add an extra 50 ft-lb torque


oh $hit... my bad

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by JARblue

Slightly less money? That upgrade cost for a new clutch is less than the extra cost for an AT from the dealer. So not only do you have to pay extra for the AT initially, you have to pay to upgrade it to 1000hp before you can add an extra 50 ft-lb torque


oh $hit... my bad

TECHNICALLY.......Tony's new flex plate and AT upgrades could be the solution.

also many people have easily gone with a trans cooler, line pressure tune, and maybe a VB upgrade.

to hold 500TQ you'll spend about $1k with the MT.....oh and add $500 for CSC fix. the AT is about the same money to hold 500

anything over that why not build it to be bulletproof like a $4k tranny from level10 or however much tony's new upgrades are.

[JWillis72]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

TECHNICALLY.......Tony's new flex plate and AT upgrades could be the solution.

also many people have easily gone with a trans cooler, line pressure tune, and maybe a VB upgrade.

to hold 500TQ you'll spend about $1k with the MT.....oh and add $500 for CSC fix. the AT is about the same money to hold 500

anything over that why not build it to be bulletproof like a $4k tranny from level10 or however much tony's new upgrades are.

I have a cooler on mine plus adjusted the pressures and have been planning on a Level 10 trans thinking it would give sooner or later but it just keeps running rock solid.

[jwick]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

TECHNICALLY.......Tony's new flex plate and AT upgrades could be the solution.



also many people have easily gone with a trans cooler, line pressure tune, and maybe a VB upgrade.



to hold 500TQ you'll spend about $1k with the MT.....oh and add $500 for CSC fix. the AT is about the same money to hold 500



anything over that why not build it to be bulletproof like a $4k tranny from level10 or however much tony's new upgrades are.

Your numbers are off on the MT upgrade. Assuming you can do the work yourself, which is a fair comparison based on your AT upgrades, the MT number is closer to a grand all in. New disk, pressure plate and CSC should run you about that. I got all that and the flywheel for like $1050 and I'm holding 465wtq. I don't think my disk could handle more than 500wtq but the money spent on flywheel could be used for disk upgrade instead.

Edit - and nobody has numbers yet on what Tony's upgrade will cost once it is available, nor the power it can hold. Unless I missed a release while I was offshore and away from the forum for a week.

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by jwick

Your numbers are off on the MT upgrade. Assuming you can do the work yourself, which is a fair comparison based on your AT upgrades, the MT number is closer to a grand all in. New disk, pressure plate and CSC should run you about that. I got all that and the flywheel for like $1050 and I'm holding 465wtq. I don't think my disk could handle more than 500wtq but the money spent on flywheel could be used for disk upgrade instead.

soooooooooo technically for $1k on either tranny you're holding 500tq.

soooooooooo there's no real argument there as first stated.

I win!

[jwick]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

soooooooooo technically for $1k on either tranny you're holding 500tq.



soooooooooo there's no real argument there as first stated.



I win!

No. Prove that $1k will give you 500wtq in AT

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by jwick

Don't you still only get true black from a plasma. And there's an xboxone at home hooked up to a LCD and the PS4 is hooked up to a plasma. The plasma if far superior to the LCD when playing a game.

Oh wait...that's probably just because the PS4 is better. Never mind

sir you can attack my transmission but I will not allow you to attack xbox.

that's like saying Jesus was a fag to bible thumpers.

Originally Posted by jwick

No. Prove that $1k will give you 500wtq

tranny cooler - $300-400
flex plate will probably be $300-500
tune is part of TT so idk if that cost counts for the 5 min it takes to up the line pressure.

that should be ok for 500. I think....... lol

[JARblue]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

TECHNICALLY.......Tony's new flex plate and AT upgrades could be the solution.

also many people have easily gone with a trans cooler, line pressure tune, and maybe a VB upgrade.

to hold 500TQ you'll spend about $1k with the MT.....oh and add $500 for CSC fix. the AT is about the same money to hold 500

anything over that why not build it to be bulletproof like a $4k tranny from level10 or however much tony's new upgrades are.

Where are you getting your numbers? Are you including labor?

Let's get specific here. MT upgrade costs a new clutch. Let's say $1500 including labor for a nicer clutch that can handle 500 hp and 400 ft-lbs torque. Add another $300 to upgrade the CSC (no extra labor since the clutch is being done). We're at $1800.

From what I've seen the trans cooler will cost ~$400 plus labor. The VB upgrade is like $900 plus labor (can you get it from someone other than GTM? ). So you're probably around the same cost including labor for cooler and vb install. And with all this, can you even guarantee that the AT will hold more than 400 ft-lb torque? I don't think so...

And who says you have to upgrade the MT internals to get the same HP as a Level10 tranny upgrade? Has anyone broken an MT with too much torque? I don't think so. I wonder if any of the 800+ hp builds have upgrade MT internals. I don't think so.

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by JARblue

Where are you getting your numbers? Are you including labor?

Let's get specific here. MT upgrade costs a new clutch. Let's say $1500 including labor for a nicer clutch that can handle 500 hp and 400 ft-lbs torque. Add another $300 to upgrade the CSC (no extra labor since the clutch is being done). We're at $1800.

From what I've seen the trans cooler will cost ~$400 plus labor. The tune will cost at least $500 if not a bit more depending on which software and package. The VB upgrade is like $900 plus labor (can you get it from someone other than GTM?). So you're at $1800 + labor for cooler and vb install. That's like 33% more cost than the MT not including the initial AT hike at the dealer. And with all this, can you even guarantee that the AT will hold more than 400 ft-lb torque? I don't think so...

And who says you have to upgrade the MT internals to get the same HP as a Level10 tranny upgrade? Has anyone broken an MT with too much torque? I don't think so. I wonder if any of the 800+ hp builds have upgrade MT internals. I don't think so.

I was hoping you didn't remember GTM was really the only VB upgrade right now lol

yea yea ok for slightly less you can hold 500tq in the MT vs AT.

but it's still subpar.

[jwick]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

the only aspect that the MT wins is the initial holding power of TQ over the AT. however any and everyone who goes over said power limit ends up changing to a bigger/stronger clutch regardless. soooo it's not really a strong argument unless you then go to compare prices. yes a MT can be upgraded for slightly less money. but that is due to the fact most places pretty much just build the AT to be good for 1000hp which costs a bit more.



and yes my analogy was meant to be the way it was lol obviously yours was literal and more accurate but that wasn't my end goal......I was just bashing

Not true. Nobody has figured out how much power it takes to break a MT. The same is not true for the AT