Nissan 370Z Forum  

Z1 CSC Elimination Kit Clutch Bleeding Issue?

Hi, I recently got the Z1 CSC Elimination kit and the Z1 Clutch & Flywheel Kit. I installed the transmission back in the car a week ago and since then

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain


Like Tree10Likes
  • 8 Post By scruffydog
  • 2 Post By Spooler

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2019, 06:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
scruffydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,113
Drives: with his eyes close
Rep Power: 717
scruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond repute
Angry Z1 CSC Elimination Kit Clutch Bleeding Issue?

Hi,

I recently got the Z1 CSC Elimination kit and the Z1 Clutch & Flywheel Kit. I installed the transmission back in the car a week ago and since then I've been stuck bleeding the clutch.



The issue is I have very little pressure and the Clutch Pedal won't return back to original position.

I follow Nissan's FSM clutch bleeding procedure which I have had success when I swapped out the stock Clutch line with a SS braided one years ago.



But with this Z1 CSC Elimination kit, I am unable to get the pedal back.

There seem to be air in the system. I called Z1 and they told me to buy a new Master.



At first I had high hopes, I even bench bled the master but once i hooked up everything and start bleeding, the pedal never got past 25% pressure.

I made some progress by eliminating the secondary cylinder when I took it out and compressed it fully with a clamp and then bled the line.


NOTE: I always bled with the bleeding Valve pointing up, this was just for the picture after it's shut.

The pedal was super firm and got back to full travel. But with the secondary cylinder compressed fully, the clutch pedal wasn’t able to go down.

Which means the master is good and no leak. But when I released the clamp of the 2nd cylinder, it must have vacuumed air from somewhere. And when I tried bleeding with it installed back onto the car. I’m back to where I was. Dead to soft clutch pedal.

Any advise would be great. The instructions from Z1 doesn't really say anything about how this secondary cylinder is supposed to be bled aside from following Nissan's FSM - I'm assumming just hook everything up and it should be bled out the air.

I've spent 4 days bleeding the clutch system and 3 bottles of Motul 660 fluid in.

My speculation is either:
1) The Slave Cylinder from Z1 is faulty and leaks
2) I'm doing something wrong with the clutch bleeding process with a Pull Style type of Secondary Cylinder (Most Traditional Secondary Cylinders are Push style)
__________________
Magnetic Black 2010 370z
Scruffydog's Journal

Last edited by scruffydog; 08-23-2019 at 06:11 PM.
scruffydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 06:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ga
Posts: 13,467
Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z
Rep Power: 2684390
Spooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Do you have an RJM pedal. IF so, you need to set it to stock with no adjustment on it. The clutch will bleed properly then if you have installed everything correctly. You also have to adjust the slave cylinder arm for proper engagement.
Spooler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 07:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
scruffydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,113
Drives: with his eyes close
Rep Power: 717
scruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I do not have the RJM pedal. What adjustment should I be looking to do? Does this explain why the pedal is so low to the ground and only have 25% pressure?
__________________
Magnetic Black 2010 370z
Scruffydog's Journal
scruffydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 07:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 236
Drives: 2015 370z
Rep Power: 6724
ByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond reputeByThaBay has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
I do not have the RJM pedal. What adjustment should I be looking to do? Does this explain why the pedal is so low to the ground and only have 25% pressure?
We’re both in NorCal. I can help you. PM me.
ByThaBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 07:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ga
Posts: 13,467
Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z
Rep Power: 2684390
Spooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
I do not have the RJM pedal. What adjustment should I be looking to do? Does this explain why the pedal is so low to the ground and only have 25% pressure?
Yes, you need to lengthen the arm on the slave cylinder. Should have some instructions I would think.
Spooler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 09:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
JARblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 43
Posts: 36,449
Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3
Rep Power: 2684440
JARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
My speculation is either:
1) The Slave Cylinder from Z1 is faulty and leaks
Ding ding ding ding ding!!

Unless your master is toast or improperly adjusted or the slave cylinder is not properly adjusted... I went through 4 of their cylinders in about 50K miles

Although it is possible everything is fine and you just still have air in the system. The bleeding process can be a pain with or without the slave kit. I gravity bleed now. Takes more time but less effort. Bench bleed the master if you can.
__________________

2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic | ARC | CJM | Ecutek | FI | Fujimura | R2C | SPL | Stillen | TWM | Z1 | ZSpeed |
JARblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2019, 12:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
scruffydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,113
Drives: with his eyes close
Rep Power: 717
scruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond reputescruffydog has a reputation beyond repute
Default I got it working!

Thank you all for helping out. It's nice to have such a good community.

I finally got the Z1 CSC Elimination Kit working.

To let you guys know how I came about the solution, I did 2 things - I don't exactly know which one of the process fixed the problem but I'll share what I did.

1) Removed Helper Spring
I followed the instructions to remove the helper spring. Though I'm not sure what this did (As it seemed more like a recommendation rather than a requirement). I later installed it back, so it's safe to say having it does not prevent the kit from working. I suspect this wasn't really the root cause. However, this helper spring does prevent the pedal from springing back to rest position if there's not sufficient amount of clutch pressure. The clutch pedal requires quite a sufficient amount of back pressure to overcome the spring.

2) Bleeding the Z1 Clutch Slave Cylinder
I know a lot of you guys suggest it had to do with adjusting the length of the extension rod of the slave. I can 100% say that has very little to nothing to do with why that didn't solve my problem. I would say this section the instruction manual was really horribly written. It says nothing on how to bleed the slave cylinder. I've adjusted the slave from full length to shortest yet still unable to get the air out of the system.

I didn't give up after trying many hours because I suspect the slave was good as it didn't leak any fluid out. However, I did come to a major discovery.
The hole where the adjustment/extension rod threads into actually sucks air in to the piston (Non-fluid side). Recall when I had fully clamped down the slave with a clamp and got full pedal again? and when I released it and the piston extended back out and the pedal went dead?

So I plugged my fingers over the hole after taken out the extended stud and cycled the piston and pushed both the fluid and air out the clutch fluid reservoir. This was a random surprise because I got fluid overflowing from the reservoir as it's topped off and uncapped. But I was happy to know after doing that, and then did gravity bleed. That alone fixed the problem. After that, I just to make sure, I also did the clutch pedal pump, bleed (1 person) by jamming a jack lever to the driver seat, it didn't really make much of a difference since gravity bleed did 95%+ if not all of the job of getting air out of the system.

After I got a solid clutch pedal, I was super happy. I got the car started and had to get the car back on the lift to make a slight tweak to the adjustment rod to reduce the length so the clutch could properly disengage without having to depress all the way down to the floor to shift. As a matter of fact, my 1st adjustment was so bad, I could still hear the gear having trouble shifting as it wasn't depressing the clutch enough.

Any how, I got it adjusted to where it was before. My clutch is definitely much heavier. Not sure if it's due to the new Z1 clutch kit (Not the road race one) or if it's related to this style of clutch mechanism (with throw out fork & slave) vs the Concentric Slave Cylinder makes the pedal much firmer.

Just happy to have this done and hope others will find this thread useful as I found no information on this topic. And the Z1 guys weren't very helpful with my situation.
JARblue, Rusty, Optimiser and 5 others like this.
__________________
Magnetic Black 2010 370z
Scruffydog's Journal
scruffydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2019, 11:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 1,084
Drives: 370z
Rep Power: 13434
nis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond reputenis350 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

this is probably worse than the OEM's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JARblue View Post
Ding ding ding ding ding!!

Unless your master is toast or improperly adjusted or the slave cylinder is not properly adjusted... I went through 4 of their cylinders in about 50K miles
nis350 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2019, 11:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ga
Posts: 13,467
Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z
Rep Power: 2684390
Spooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog View Post
Thank you all for helping out. It's nice to have such a good community.

I finally got the Z1 CSC Elimination Kit working.

To let you guys know how I came about the solution, I did 2 things - I don't exactly know which one of the process fixed the problem but I'll share what I did.

1) Removed Helper Spring
I followed the instructions to remove the helper spring. Though I'm not sure what this did (As it seemed more like a recommendation rather than a requirement). I later installed it back, so it's safe to say having it does not prevent the kit from working. I suspect this wasn't really the root cause. However, this helper spring does prevent the pedal from springing back to rest position if there's not sufficient amount of clutch pressure. The clutch pedal requires quite a sufficient amount of back pressure to overcome the spring.

2) Bleeding the Z1 Clutch Slave Cylinder
I know a lot of you guys suggest it had to do with adjusting the length of the extension rod of the slave. I can 100% say that has very little to nothing to do with why that didn't solve my problem. I would say this section the instruction manual was really horribly written. It says nothing on how to bleed the slave cylinder. I've adjusted the slave from full length to shortest yet still unable to get the air out of the system.

I didn't give up after trying many hours because I suspect the slave was good as it didn't leak any fluid out. However, I did come to a major discovery.
The hole where the adjustment/extension rod threads into actually sucks air in to the piston (Non-fluid side). Recall when I had fully clamped down the slave with a clamp and got full pedal again? and when I released it and the piston extended back out and the pedal went dead?

So I plugged my fingers over the hole after taken out the extended stud and cycled the piston and pushed both the fluid and air out the clutch fluid reservoir. This was a random surprise because I got fluid overflowing from the reservoir as it's topped off and uncapped. But I was happy to know after doing that, and then did gravity bleed. That alone fixed the problem. After that, I just to make sure, I also did the clutch pedal pump, bleed (1 person) by jamming a jack lever to the driver seat, it didn't really make much of a difference since gravity bleed did 95%+ if not all of the job of getting air out of the system.

After I got a solid clutch pedal, I was super happy. I got the car started and had to get the car back on the lift to make a slight tweak to the adjustment rod to reduce the length so the clutch could properly disengage without having to depress all the way down to the floor to shift. As a matter of fact, my 1st adjustment was so bad, I could still hear the gear having trouble shifting as it wasn't depressing the clutch enough.

Any how, I got it adjusted to where it was before. My clutch is definitely much heavier. Not sure if it's due to the new Z1 clutch kit (Not the road race one) or if it's related to this style of clutch mechanism (with throw out fork & slave) vs the Concentric Slave Cylinder makes the pedal much firmer.

Just happy to have this done and hope others will find this thread useful as I found no information on this topic. And the Z1 guys weren't very helpful with my situation.
The heavy clutch is due to the pressure plate. I have a stock feeling triple disk clutch. It has an external slave conversion also that was made by the clutch manufacturer, ATS.
scruffydog and Rusty like this.
Spooler is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Z1 Motorsports: Clutch Concentric Slave Cylinder Elimination Kit John@Z1 Drivetrain/Engine 121 10-03-2017 03:43 PM
Opinions on Clutch flush/bleeding Akurei Engine & Drivetrain 9 10-24-2014 10:00 PM
Calling all clutch bleeding experts Rangerz Engine & Drivetrain 9 10-22-2014 10:33 AM
Desperate for clutch bleeding help Pheonix Engine & Drivetrain 22 05-10-2014 02:21 AM
Clutch bleeding BIG issues edconline Engine & Drivetrain 16 04-10-2014 08:00 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2