No Full Synthetic Oil in the Z?

370Zsteve

Tons of BS in this thread, that's for sure! There is absolutely NO WAY an engine would be run up to redline on the test bench. And the only manufacturer that puts an engine on a dyno at the factory is Porsche. All oil is drained from the engine on the test bench at the factory, after the initial test run. In the case of Nissan for the VQ, it is then refilled with Nissan Ester Oil. Why? Because this engine runs hot, period.

Here's a nice link, read it and stop the madness!

Stealth 316 - Engine Break-In

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kannibul

I think the article as written (and others that recommend break-in by varying engine speed) are taking into account the pressures being applied to the rings, pistons, cylinder walls and valves.

Cars typically "burn" oil due to bad valve seals - ie, oil drops down into the combusion chamber (or out the exhaust). If you have bad rings, you don't burn oil, you lose compression. There's no a whole lot you can do at break in to prevent your rings from failing and/or wearing out. It's part of the lifecycle of the engine. Same in a sense with valve stem seals - eventually they can wear out.

Whether you vary your engine speed or not during break-in makes zero difference to the part. It has a limited number of cycles it can sustain before degradation, provided there is adequate lubrication.


One other thing, redline is a number. Case and point - same engine, same internals, and the Nizmo has a higher redline. "staying away from redline" is a load of BS. It makes no real difference to the engine how fast you run it, the same parts are moving, just faster. Sure there are physical loads that are different, however, those loads are "within spec" - it's like saying that a part won't surive because you hit redline, or that you will drastically reduce the longevity of your engine because you bounced the needle when the car only had 200 miles on it...

My uncle used to drag race one of his old cars and would wind the engine up to 12K - this car was bone stock, I think it was a mustang, but I'd have to check. He did that until he blew the flywheel out of it, which was a significant number of races later.

Blown32

I doubt very seriously that your uncle was winding his mustang engine to 12k!Never happen in the real world!

kannibul

I'll check w/ my Dad on the story on which car it was, the year, the engine size and whatever else he can remember.

My dad, I think, at the time had a 68 or 69 396 Camaro, and I think my uncle's engine was under 300ci...283 sounds right, but that's a Chevy engine...like I said, I'll have to check.

370Zsteve

This is not the real world. This is FantasyLand.

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wellarmed

LOL...You got that right. Speaking of 12k rpm.... back in the '80s when I was running a Pro Stock motorcycle (Kawasaki), we would always break in fresh cylinders/rings with one pass on regular oil and then drain it and put in the Mobil 1. Rings wouldn't seat on the synthetic. Just wouldn't do it...period. That was when I was convinced that the synthetic stuff was the real deal. Of coarse that was a long time ago and alot has changed since then. Except Mustangs still won't turn 12,000 rpm...

VTalumni

I just want to point out that I worked at a Toyota Manufacturing plant and as soon as the car is assembled, they do put it on a test bench and drive the car under load. They rev it up to something like 50-75% of redline a few times. And then they actually put it in reverse and rev it up under load as well. I dont know for sure but Id say probably 3500-4000, could be different depending on the car of course.

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370Zsteve

That's far different than running it up to redline, ya think? Why the reverse? Does that make a difference on the engine?

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Modshack

This is not about break-in.....It's about quality control. Making sure everything works before shipping

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Modshack

That's for sure, including This response.

Many manufacturers have a chassis dyno at the end of the assembly line where the car is run up through the gears and RPM's under load. It's part of the Quality Control procedure.
ALL Motorcycle assembly plants do for sure.

As far as a factory fill with Esther oil, no one has EVER confirmed this...Lotta gum flapping, no evidence..If you have some post it up!

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370Zsteve

It's ester, not Esther. Modshack, I never said they don't run the engine at the factory. I said that only Porsche runs the engine on a dyno before it is even installed in the chassis. What manufacturer would build an engine and not test it? I also said that there is no way an engine would be run up to redline.

So you are saying that Nissan recommends it's Ester Oil but does not use it? Seriously? Talk about gum-flapping! Do you know anything about the VVEL tapping issue? Nissan started using Ester oil in the VQ engine in the G37 (they also re-calibrated the ecu) because of it. The TSB is ITB08-028a. Wasn't hard to locate on the internet.

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Modshack

We could go on for weeks about this. The only reference to factory fill in the manual is on page 9-5 and says this..

"Your engine was filled with a high quality engine
oil when it was built."

That's not real definitive....

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370Zsteve

So, again, Nissan highly recommends (can't require, by law) the oil but does not use it themselves for the factory fill, which will be used during the most crucial period (break-in) and which would help limit the number of warranty issues with the engine? Really? Man, that is one dumb company.

The TSB, by the way, states that Nissan Ester oil is required when reflashing the ECU under the TSB procedure for the 3.7 VHR. Isn't the ECU reflash at this point done at the factory?

EDIT: Nissan Technical Service Bulletin ITB08-028a
EDIT: The Owner's Manual was written long before ITB08-028a

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Modshack

Like I said, if you have proof, post it up! I'm sure others would be interested..

Personally I don't care. I ditched my factory fill at 1600 miles when I installed my oil cooler. Pennsoil Dino since then with no differences noted at all. I'll be moving to full synthetic at 5K...

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370Zsteve

Well I guess you're too busy to read the TSB? I think I posted the name of it at least twice. Go right ahead and use whatever oil you want, geez, I ain't the hallway monitor.

From bobtheoilguy.com:

There is an interesting article by Mike Kojima that goes
into great detail about the Nissan oil. The price is about the same as Redline. Here are a couple of quotes:

"Nissan's special oil and their newly developed hydrogen free DLC coating on cam followers reduces the amount of friction produced by the valve train by a huge amount. This can make a considerable difference in fuel economy, power output and perhaps even heat generation.

What is Nissan's special oil? The oil was developed to complement Nissan's Hydrogen free DLC coating used on the cam followers in the QR25DE engine, the VQ35HR and the VQ37VHR engines. DLC stands for diamond like coating, which is an amorphous layer of carbon crystals with hard smooth properties much like diamond. Most of valve train friction is created by the interface between the cam follower and the cam lobe. DLC is very slippery stuff and Nissan uses it to reduce valvetrain friction to improve fuel economy, reduce emission and increase power.

Nissan, in their search for improving oils frictional properties, figured out a way to substitute ultra hard nano particles for the normal chemical friction modifiers adding some interesting molecular twists. Again due to the convoluted nature of Nissan’s white papers and patents, its hard to guess exactly what the nano particles are but they are definitely an ultra hard industrial abrasive or bearing type ceramic and probably at least in part, nano particles of industrial diamond

Nissans super oil is around 0.5% nano particles by weight. The particles are probably around 10 nanometers in diameter, really very small! A certain percentage of the nano particles have to be carbon based, preferably single crystal synthetic diamond. The carbon content helps make the nano particles attracted to the low hydrogen DLC coating. Instead of making a slippery metallic film on bare metal parts like traditional friction modifiers, the nano particles act like atomic level miniature ball bearings, preventing metal to metal contact and reducing friction to previously unheard of levels. These nano particles are ashless if they find there way into the engine, making the oil low deposit forming for lower emissions. The Nissan super oil does most of its friction reduction in the valvetrain but it still helps in other parts of the engine.

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SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.