AP Racing Big Brake Kit Installed!
 

http://www.brake-pros.com/product_images/AP5700.jpg

For those of you that know AP Racing brakes, I think you will be excited to hear that I have successfully fit and tested their new kit for the 370z! Includes a 14.25" 6-pot front and 4-pot rear kit. For those of you that haven't heard of them, let's quickly cover their credentials... example apps:

• Ultima GTR which has world record for 0 to 100 to 0, 0.5 sec faster than the Veyron
• most of Formula 1, LeMans, ALMS, Grand Am, NASCAR, WRC and Champ Car
• cars 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the Top Gear TV show fastest lap chart AP Racing Limited Edition Competition Gray Calipers Are Here! : STILLEN
• and now my humble 370z! :)

Why I decided to make this upgrade... If you read my build journal and some of the other threads from folks that track this car, you'll notice that even with the Akebono sport package brakes, high temp fluids and track pads, people are experiencing significant degradation in braking performance during track sessions with hairpins and other intense braking zones. At first I thought I could resolve this with more airflow, different pads, etc, but after playing around with all that I just wasn't able to get consistent stopping performance on the OE setup. Why take chances with your brakes?! I bought this kit in order to get 99.99% confidence that I will stop predictably every time. In addition, as I move to stickier tires, I suspect that this car is going to need a lot more than the stock setup could offer. Larger surface area of contact between pads + rotors = more thermal capacity... Some more discussion here: http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspen...track-use.html and here http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspen...0z-brakes.html

Installation: I had the kit professionally installed by Redline Motorsports of Tempe, AZ. They primarily work on Porsche and Ferrari. They are a Brembo dealer but were seriously impressed with this kit. Install was reportedly straightforward "virtually bolt ons" - only downside noted was that there was trimming required to the OEM backing plates. Nothing a DIY'er can't handle with a grinder and sawzall. We are using DOT5.1 fluid. As for servicability in the future, one thing you'll notice about these is the huge opening for pads... swapping pads is drop-in, unlike some other BBK's

What's in the kit: Choice of slotted, drilled or slotted/drilled rotors, calipers, stainless steel brake lines, mintex extreme metallic high-temp pads, all the hardware you need for install. I elected the slotted rotors. Cross-drilled are for looks. Slotted are for heat dissipation and performance.

Testing and impressions: I am just getting started with testing, but first impressions... flawless! First and most importantly, I have experienced ZERO fade issues throughout the hot summer months here in the southwest. Including time at tracks in AZ and Utah. I have braked the car from 150+mph with some intensity and it was supremely stable and confidence inspiring. Stopping G's have increased and distances reduced. And to be honest, I am still exploring the limits of these brakes. You will see from a chart I post later that I am not yet fully exploiting these brakes. Why? Because I continue to underestimate how much stopping power is on reserve... It takes bravery and time to adjust to fully exploit a set of brakes like this, and well I'm still working on it!

Where to get: Stillen : AP Racing AP Racing 6-Piston Big Brake Kits You may be worried about how much they cost but I offer this up for you: 1) if you act while your z is new'ish, you can probably sell your existing brakes for about $1K - lots of interested "G" owners, 2) you're going to spend a significant portion of this on quality rotors and still not have as reliable and powerful a setup, 3) they may save your ***! 4) One of the things you are paying for with these brakes is support. Since purchasing these, I've had all the access I need to Stillen's technical people to talk about brake pad options, servicing, etc. The responsiveness and technical skill of the folks I've interacted with at Stillen/Brake Pros has been 10x what I've gotten from Nissan for the car itself.

I will continue to test different pads during the upcoming season and will update this thread occasionally with results. Questions and comments welcomed!

UPDATED LINKS

BLING

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The pics above will be updated once I get my new Forgestar wheels... and by the way, obviously these fit with the sport 19 wheels... I am not sure about OEM 18s... I have also confirmed that they DO fit with the 18" Forgestars offered by Mike at DDM.

So, this morning I was at Firebird International Raceway West Track here in Phoenix. I pulled some data off my Traqmate to illustrate these brakes. Have a look.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...avisjb/apr.jpg

You'll notice that I have no trouble getting to 1.0g decel on street tires. I think there is more on tap, but as I said I'm still getting acclimated to these brakes. In fact, you can see that I did not consistently use all the brakes. You will also notice that there are no abrupt fall offs that would be indicative of brake fade. Another thing you may notice is that around 500-900 feet, I am using the brakes ~10-15% around a 1.0g right hand sweeper. I had a driving instructor that once told me 'the accelerator is an on/off switch, use it that way (gradually applied of course)... but the brake is not... the brake pedal has infinite positions' With these brakes and the s/s lines that come included, I find I am better able to dial in exactly the brake pressure I desire... that means more controlled and predictable trail braking. This will only get better as I move to sticky tires.

That's all for now!

:tup: I'm scared to ask the price:yum:

Props to you for getting some of the best products out there and building an amazing car man... Doesnt get much higher than AP Racing Brakes, you got an awesome set there.

-Steven @ Amplified

The Stillen link in my OP has the prices. This is an exclusive Stillen kit. Stillen engineering designed the kit in collaboration with AP Racing. Prices are marked down from list, which should help a little. One option for anyone whose budget is tight is to do the front and save rears for future date.

Thanks Steven! Now if I can work out the fuel starvation issue I've been having at the track recently, will be ready to rock!

Very nice brakes.

I can't wait to see the 18" Forgestars. I hope they get to you soon. If you don't mind me asking, but what tire sizes will you be using?

awesome brakes!

Thanks. The matte black forgestars should set off the brakes nicely... and the overall combo will be much lighter. I am currently thinking 285 front 305 rear... but may adjust that depending on classing

Thanks for the writeup Travis. I think this might be on the cards for me next year, a little pricy but fixes the fatal flaw that exists in this car.

Sure thing, Chris

I'd urge folks to think about doing this sooner rather than later, so you get a good price when you re-sell your OEM brakes. I got a grand for mine, but I sold to the first guy that came along. You can prob do better than that.

Would you say these brakes are too aggressive for street use?, I only do an occasional track day maybe once per year.

Great question, I should have mentioned that before... when you use these brakes with a reasonably 'soft' pad like the mintex extreme that comes with the kit, they are PERFECTLY SUITED for the street... no joke, a lot less bite and jerkiness than I had with my stock brakes combined with hawk HP+ pads... having said that, you do not need these brakes for the street... I know you realize that... the benefit for you would be once per year and bragging rights in between events! :)

Only the front backing plates require modification correct? The rear rotors look like they are smaller than stock.

Yes, I believe only front backing plates require modification... I'll ask robert (redlinewins) to come in here and verify/comment

I believe rears provide more contact patch than stock... pads are bigger... I'll ask Josh to comment further on this one

AP Racing is one of the best brake systems out there imo.
looking good travis :D

Wait ... 18'' forgestars are lighter than the stock 19's? ...

By roughly 2-3 lbs. depending on offset/size.

Another item you might want to factor into the AP's price is pad and rotor costs. When I switched from the factory brakes on my 93 RSA to the Porsche Turbo Big Red setup I went through fewer pads and rotors per season. Those costs add up quickly.

Good point.... I haven't done the math on that but expecting it to be longer intervals and higher cost per interval... too soon to tell how it nets out but hoping it is a lower cost

hey travis. glad to hear the bbk completely eliminated your brake problems. can you explain a little more about how it's doing this? from the specs, it doesnt look like the kit is that much bigger than the sport brakes which are already pretty huge (14.25" vs. 14"). from comments made in other threads, it seemed more of an abs/ brake assist problem than with the actual calipers/ rotors/ pads themselves. would the 1/4" increase in rotor size make that much of a difference in heat dissipation to prevent the problem?

i'm kind of hesitant to do a bbk b/c of the cost, but if that's the only way to solve this problem, then i guess i dont have a choice.....

will respond more later, but it is the area of pad contacting rotor and the heat dissipation qualities of the materials not just the diameter of the rotor to look at... more later

Great job on the brakes :tup:

I have seen many brake systems come in and out of our warehouse and AP Racing has always been one of my favorites.

Keep up the great decisions :tup:

-Hunter

One thing to notice on the stock rotor versus the AP racing rotor is the fact that the AP kit uses a different internal vane structure that acts like a fan to draw the air from the inside of the rotor to more aggresively assist in the brake rotor cooling.

The stock rotors do this too but on a much smaller scale than the AP's. Couple this with the much larger mass of the stock rotor and yes they take longer to heat up but once they are hot - they will stay hotter longer making it more difficult to dissapate the heat.

Also as Travis points out - there is more pad contact with the rotor on the AP's - therefore there is less heat built up during brake pad application.

I'm sure someone with an engineering degree can come in here and explain better than us - but overall these are the contributing factors.

Oh - and I have the 370z sport akebono's on my 06 M45 :) Lovin every minute of em :)

Ken

Kinda-almost, the larger mass doesn't perform better because it takes longer to heat up per se, it performs better because the heat is spread across a larger area and because the larger surface area allows for for more efficient heat dissipation. In a way that does allow it to take longer to heat up, but not in the way you were thinking.

As far as less heat being created because of the larger pad...the pads on the AP Kit have a much higher coefficient of friction and since braking force (or grip for that matter) is a product of pressure and the coefficient of friction, they require less pressure to create the same amount of braking force.

The internal vanes (cooling) + the greater mass of the rotors (cooling) + the slotted pattern on the rotors (cooling) + the grippier pads (friction) = a system that can dissipate a whole lot more heat and produce more clamping power per applied pressure than the stock setup.


I studied business management in college though..



PS: Travis those things are beautiful.

ken, spot on! there is definitely more airflow pulled in by these brakes... and I'll also prob run ducting to be doubly-sure... but regardless, I am not getting any of the over-heating I had previously during track time... thick rotors as well that better dissipate heat, and I suspect less heat buildup in the calipers... end result is precise, predictable braking... not much more to say... i'll post more data as it is captured... got an event coming up early September back at longer track that should be very telling

Thanks! I'm psyched to test these out for you all and share my thoughts, data and pics. Let me know if any other questions.

Hey I was talking to some folks who competed in the "One lap of America" and the guys who built the car (from a very well known BMW tuning shop) and it seems that the final verdict was that the AP Racing 6pot kit is the best 6 pot kit available. They said they tried the Brembo kit before and it used to be considered the best, but that the quality of the AP's has improved to the point where it has replaced the Brembo. Not only that, but they are cheaper and have cheaper pads available. Figured I'd let you know.

Come over to the darkside RCZ... you'll wonder why you didn't months ago! :D

Confidence in braking is almost the same high as acceleration...

Josh, brakes or supercharger? Pick one ;)

LOL.. that's funny.. reminds me of:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...man/Turbo1.jpg

Very nice! As Travis already knows, the stock brake calipers just won't cut it for heavy track use. They look really nice, but they aren't up to the rigors of sustained high speed track beat downs.

Now it's time to start experimenting with different brake pads. What are you running in them currently for track use?

The calipers? sigh, I didnt want to hear that... I guess in due time I'll have both, but I think I'm going for the supercharger first since the car spends most of it's life on the street still.

It's ironic, becuase the older OEM brembos on the track 350Z were actually pretty good for track use. Brakes are one area, I feel that Nissan took a little step backwards with the 370Z, most likely with the goal is saving some money and keeping the 370Z such a bargain.

:iagree:

-Hunter

Congratulation on this marvels BBK. You got one of the best. if not the best.:tup:

I don't think cross-drilled are for looks. I think that cold air inter the vent in between the disk,and hot air exits the disk throe the holes. and i also think it's good for wet weather. their lighter too.

cross-drilled also have their down side. they crack.

I don't really want to turn this into a debate. but i searched and found this nice write up Cross Drilled VS Slotted Rotors


If a respectable company like Stillen,and AP Racing work on a break kit. "exclusive for the 370z". Why did you have to do modification to correctly fit the break system? Or are they just off the shelf parts that they put together?:ugh2:

Valantino

+1

Thanks for your note... my belief is that slotted delivers the venting benefits without the hassles of cracking associated with cross-drilled... to each, their own... re Stillen engineering, they did everything they could to ensure ease of install, but they can't control how nissan designed the backing plate. And putting a custom backing plate would drive up price. All other aspects of the install were straightforward.

^ Thanks for the clarification. :tup: