Nismo Brake Failure

RedNismo · 05-06-2010, 02:21 AM

Car and driver's explanation of the Nismo crash points to the stock brake pads. And that after the investigation, Nissan replaced the Nismo's brakes with Nissan sport pads. Does that mean it only applies to certain nismos build after a certain date? I was under the impression that all Nismos had sport pads. I notice mine doens' really have the stopping power as my G35coupe.

NIZMOZ · 05-06-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNismo

Car and driver's explanation of the Nismo crash points to the stock brake pads. And that after the investigation, Nissan replaced the Nismo's brakes with Nissan sport pads. Does that mean it only applies to certain nismos build after a certain date? I was under the impression that all Nismos had sport pads. I notice mine doens' really have the stopping power as my G35coupe.

Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

370Zsteve · 05-06-2010, 07:55 AM

Please don't start another thread on this subject.

cossie1600 · 05-06-2010, 12:26 PM

I lost a stock brake line on my old 350z. I am more scared of my nissan brakes than toyota brakes

tjlazer · 05-06-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNismo

Does that mean it only applies to certain nismos build after a certain date?

This affects ALL Akebono equipped Z34's:

Quote:

Car and Driver: We now feel certain that boiling the brake fluid, which was probably made easier because most of the pad material had already melted away, is what caused the brake failure and subsequent crash at VIR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNismo

I notice mine doens' really have the stopping power as my G35coupe.

Are you serious? I had a G35C and I can tell the Akebono brakes are better...maybe not by much but definaltly not worse.

tjlazer · 05-06-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Typically, a sporty car can endure 30 or 40 stops in this fashion, but after seven strong panic stops, the base Akebono pads began to give way, which wasn’t surprising given our Lightning Lap experience. Stopping distances from 100 mph worsened from about 325 feet to nearly 500, a level the Z maintained through cycles two and three. By the end of the fourth cycle (or 20 stops), braking distances stretched to more than 1000 feet, pedal travel increased by almost four inches, and even goading the pedal with 150 pounds of force couldn’t produce 0.5 g of deceleration. Although the brake-pad fade was dramatic, at least it happened somewhat gradually, far more so than during our wild ride at the Virginia track.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if the Nismo Z's more aerodynamic body kit cases more break overheating than the regular 370???

shabarivas · 05-06-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjlazer

This affects ALL Akebono equipped Z34's:

Are you serious? I had a G35C and I can tell the Akebono brakes are better...maybe not by much but definaltly not worse.

You tell lies - the stock G35 brake setup is FAR better than our Akebonos - its a well known fact that the 2003-2004 G35 coupes had by far one of the best brakes in its league. They also wore out every 10k but still - they stopped on a DIME.

tjlazer · 05-06-2010, 01:15 PM

Well did not have the brembos as mine was a 2006. I had my G35C for 3.5 years and traded it in for my 370Z and although I have not really pressed the braking (on either), from street use I can tell the Akebono's are better.

But I do agree, upgrading the fluid and pads is a must...

daleks · 05-06-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjlazer

Hmmmmm, I wonder if the Nismo Z's more aerodynamic body kit cases more break overheating than the regular 370???

It would be interesting to see the same tests run on a non-Nismo 370Z. However, C&D chose not to do that and you can't compare these tests from two different days and draw a conclusion on whether it's specifically the Nismo fascia, or the general design of the 370Z.

There are two primary issues: cold air entering the wheel well, and hot air exiting the wheel well. You can use front-mounted ducts to push and it, and have the rotor create a vortex to push air through the veins. From there you can have a slotted fender to create negative pressure and suck air out of the wheel well.

It's odd that the fascia would be so efficiently designed to push air past the wheel well entirely. I mean even if that were the case air moving past the wheel well would create suction within the wheel well, and should pull in air... maybe the chin spoiler on the Nismo front fascia is too restrictive and isn't allowing air to come in from underneath the car? I don't know if the issue is simply exiting hot air or that it doesn't have enough fresh air.

Then again, I haven't taken a physics class in a long time and should get back to work.

ChrisSlicks · 05-06-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

You tell lies - the stock G35 brake setup is FAR better than our Akebonos - its a well known fact that the 2003-2004 G35 coupes had by far one of the best brakes in its league. They also wore out every 10k but still - they stopped on a DIME.

I would agree with that, the brakes were very confidence inspiring even under abusive driving conditions. They did wear pretty fast though.

sig11 · 05-06-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleks

It would be interesting to see the same tests run on a non-Nismo 370Z. However, C&D chose not to do that and you can't compare these tests from two different days and draw a conclusion on whether it's specifically the Nismo fascia, or the general design of the 370Z.

Er... They didn't use a NISMO to test it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car and Driver

We used two Sport-package 370Zs (which have the same brake hardware as the NISMO Z). "

daleks · 05-06-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11

Er... They didn't use a NISMO to test it...

Oops, yes it does look like I missed that. My mistake. Although, there are now two ways you can look at it.

1. The tests they performed do not match the track conditions (different car), and thus have no bearing on the accident. How can the conclusion of the article be to install brake cooling ducts when the car tested had a different fascia than that of the one in the accident?

2. However, if the fascia doesn't matter (stock vs. Nismo) then you almost have a more interesting path to take. You could say since the results were similar (premature fade & fluid boiling) that the tests and track conditions were evenly paired. Then, does that mean the fascia doesn't matter with regards to brake cooling? You should then look into aspects of the wheel well design and possibly even the dust shield.

At the bottom of the originally linked C&D article there is a link to another article regarding brake tests, but with the Nismo 350Z that had Brembos.

Performance Cars - Tech Stuff - Car and Driver

The old Nismo variant performed poorly as well with regards to premature fade and fluid boiling. Of the cars it was compared to the best performers have air ducts in the fascia (Porsche's) or fender vents (Corvette). The other dog of the group was the 335i, which I don't believe has either.

NIZMOZ · 05-06-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

You tell lies - the stock G35 brake setup is FAR better than our Akebonos - its a well known fact that the 2003-2004 G35 coupes had by far one of the best brakes in its league. They also wore out every 10k but still - they stopped on a DIME.

Agreed. Especially the ones with Brembos including the 350z. They just had better brakes.

tjlazer · 05-06-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Agreed. Especially the ones with Brembos including the 350z. They just had better brakes.

If you people think the NON brembo 350Z/G35 brakes are better than the Akebono, you all must be high...

RedNismo · 05-06-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

You tell lies - the stock G35 brake setup is FAR better than our Akebonos - its a well known fact that the 2003-2004 G35 coupes had by far one of the best brakes in its league. They also wore out every 10k but still - they stopped on a DIME.

That's what I was talking about. I had a 2003 G coupe with the first generation brake pads before they modified the material for longevitiy. It stopped much better than my Nismo.

So does anyone know if all Nismo's have the upgraded sports pads, or only a certain build date have them. I understand the Nissan sport pads are better than the stock akebono pads.

05-06-2010, 02:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
RedNismo Base Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 92 Drives: 09 Nismo Z #389 RD Rep Power: 15	Nismo Brake Failure Car and driver's explanation of the Nismo crash points to the stock brake pads. And that after the investigation, Nissan replaced the Nismo's brakes with Nissan sport pads. Does that mean it only applies to certain nismos build after a certain date? I was under the impression that all Nismos had sport pads. I notice mine doens' really have the stopping power as my G35coupe. __________________ 2003 Skyline 350GT--Tein Suspension, NRG Strut bar, Nismo CAI w/bypass, JDM emblems, Nismo Graphics... 2009 Nismo Z34 #389-- Clear Bra

05-06-2010, 07:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
370Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gold Coast CT Posts: 10,599 Drives: 2019 Corvette G.S. Rep Power: 42	Please don't start another thread on this subject. __________________ SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.

05-06-2010, 01:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
tjlazer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tacoma Age: 52 Posts: 2,496 Drives: Z34, R35 Rep Power: 19	Well did not have the brembos as mine was a 2006. I had my G35C for 3.5 years and traded it in for my 370Z and although I have not really pressed the braking (on either), from street use I can tell the Akebono's are better. But I do agree, upgrading the fluid and pads is a must... __________________ 2009 370Z Monterey Blue,Nismo Conversion,RE-11's, K&N Typhoon intakes,Blue Kickplates,Homelink,FI 18" CBE,ERZ HFCs,Hotchkis sways, Swift Spec-R, EVO-R Highwing, UPREV

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05-06-2010, 12:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	I lost a stock brake line on my old 350z. I am more scared of my nissan brakes than toyota brakes