Mixed use alignment? (Attn:Hotrodz, Rusty)

[Jhill]

So been a while posting but I got a secondary vehicle so now making some changes with the Z and doing suspension arms and also some custom valved powertrix ultralites. I still plan do street drive the car so I’m trying to get some feedback on alignment thoughts. I know the go to for track is a -2 to -3 front with a -1.8 rear but I think that’s going to be a bit much front for any sustained street use. So then the question is if I plan to keep the front around -1.5 to 1.75 should I then put the rears closer to -1.25ish? I know factory has the rears more negative than front but then I see a lot of the Z (and GTR) change that ratio for aggressive use as you get more corner exit traction.

So keep rears 1.8 and just have less front or adjust the rear to keep a more negative front bias?

[Rusty]

I've been using these setting for a while.

Front:
Camber -2.2
Caster 6.5
Toe 1/16" in

Rear:
Camber -1.8
Toe 1/16" in.

Been thinking on going to this because I don't track like I used too.
Front:
Camber -1.8
Caster 6.5
Toe 1/16"

Rear
Camber -1.5
Toe 1/16"

[Jhill]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I've been using these setting for a while.

Front:
Camber -2.2
Caster 6.5
Toe 1/16" in

Rear:
Camber -1.8
Toe 1/16" in.

Been thinking on going to this because I don't track like I used too.
Front:
Camber -1.8
Caster 6.5
Toe 1/16"

Rear
Camber -1.5
Toe 1/16"

That looks decent. I’ll either copy that or do 1.75 ish all around

[filip00]

Originally Posted by Jhill

So been a while posting but I got a secondary vehicle so now making some changes with the Z and doing suspension arms and also some custom valved powertrix ultralites. I still plan do street drive the car so I’m trying to get some feedback on alignment thoughts. I know the go to for track is a -2 to -3 front with a -1.8 rear but I think that’s going to be a bit much front for any sustained street use. So then the question is if I plan to keep the front around -1.5 to 1.75 should I then put the rears closer to -1.25ish? I know factory has the rears more negative than front but then I see a lot of the Z (and GTR) change that ratio for aggressive use as you get more corner exit traction.

So keep rears 1.8 and just have less front or adjust the rear to keep a more negative front bias?

After trying out many different setups, I think if you go front between -1.5 and -2.0 and back somewhere close to -1.0 and -1.5 you are going to have a pretty neutral setup. The Z has much wider rear tyres, and quite a soft rear sway bar, resulting in a lot of understeer when stock. So I'd definitely suggest the front as mentioned above, and the rear somewhere between -1.0 if you have a stock rear sway bar. Or -1.5 to even -2.0 on the rear if you've got a very stiff rear sway bar.
For toe, I'd suggest 0 on the front, and just slightly closed toe for the rear. This proved to help return the steering wheel faster when going out the corner while keeping the rear neutral.

[runwhatyabrng]

Originally Posted by Rusty

...

Been thinking on going to this because I don't track like I used too.
Front:
Camber -1.8
Caster 6.5
Toe 1/16"

Rear
Camber -1.5
Toe 1/16"

I am aiming for similar numbers. car is 2011 Sport on original suspension and I don't plan on changing over to coilovers or lowering springs, I plan to get SPL FUCA for the front. For the rear can I achieve that on stock hardware or will I need to add some bits to get there?

[filip00]

Stock rear doesn't allow less than -2° camber.

[runwhatyabrng]

Originally Posted by filip00

Stock rear doesn't allow less than -2° camber.

I guess to get there I also need to add rear camber links (SPL RLL Z34D) ?

[redondoaveb]

Originally Posted by runwhatyabrng

I guess to get there I also need to add rear camber links (SPL RLL Z34D) ?

According to this, oem rear camber is 1.58

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by filip00

Stock rear doesn't allow less than -2° camber.

Wrong. -1.17 to -2.16.


Stock alignment specs?

[filip00]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Wrong. -1.17 to -2.16.


Stock alignment specs?

Oooooh you're right, my apologies! I forgot I have a lowered car which inherently increases the negative camber. My bad!

And to answer above - if you go out of OEM specs, you will need not just camber arms, but toe arms as well. Aftermarket camber arms will allow more or less aggresive camber, but will pull the toe setting out of alignment and just using the stock eccentric screw to adjust it will not be enough.

[Jhill]

Originally Posted by filip00

Oooooh you're right, my apologies! I forgot I have a lowered car which inherently increases the negative camber. My bad!

And to answer above - if you go out of OEM specs, you will need not just camber arms, but toe arms as well. Aftermarket camber arms will allow more or less aggresive camber, but will pull the toe setting out of alignment and just using the stock eccentric screw to adjust it will not be enough.

I’m on Stillen sway bars so I’ve actually increased rear to front in terms of % increase from stock. I know the go to is hotchkiss front and no rear but I tested setting the Stillen full stiff front and full soft rear and it wasn’t for me, just seemed steering response was gone and car only wanted to push.

Full setup will be powertrix ultralites lowered 1-1.25”, z1 forged upper arms with poly bushings, z1 rear camber arms with poly bushings, spc toe bolts and Stillen sway bars. Stock rays sports with either 10mm spacers (currently) or 20mm once I test for them. Looking for a setup that be good for hpde days a few times a year and then not destroy the tires on the street.

[Tractionless]

The more rear camber you have the less tire meaningfully contacting the road for straight line acceleration.

As soon as you get in the car, your weight adds more rear camber, then plant your foot to the floor and the rearward weight distribution adds even more. Pretty soon you only have have the first 4" of the inside of the tire really biting the pavement. *Facetiously speaking about the 4" measurement but you get the idea.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Tractionless

The more rear camber you have the less tire meaningfully contacting the road for straight line acceleration.

As soon as you get in the car, your weight adds more rear camber, then plant your foot to the floor and the rearward weight distribution adds even more. Pretty soon you only have have the first 4" of the inside of the tire really biting the pavement. *Facetiously speaking about the 4" measurement but you get the idea.

Yeah, the Z has a steep camber curve designed into the rear suspension. The more it squats, the more camber it gets.

[Tractionless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Yeah, the Z has a steep camber curve designed into the rear suspension. The more it squats, the more camber it gets.

I agree and unfortunately hurts straight line traction as a result so I run -1* on my dedicated street car to save the inside edge and keep as much width on the road as possible. IMO still handles great for my usage.

While mine is by no means a track car, nor even a auto X ride I take it to a road race shop to make sure it's "treated with respect", done "right" with me present, and I pay dearly lol.

I noticed the major amount of rear camber change when the tech. pulls down on the rear cross bracing while making adjustments!

[Averying]

Originally Posted by Tractionless

I agree and unfortunately hurts straight line traction as a result so I run -1* on my dedicated street car to save the inside edge and keep as much width on the road as possible. IMO still handles great for my usage.

While mine is by no means a track car, nor even a auto X ride I take it to a road race shop to make sure it's "treated with respect", done "right" with me present, and I pay dearly lol.

I noticed the major amount of rear camber change when the tech. pulls down on the rear cross bracing while making adjustments!

https://youtu.be/20rltqTKeVE?si=5dMuIp0LF9Jx-q2A

Recorded this a while back to visualize the camber gain


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