Endless RF-650 Brake Fluid - Explained

DriveLineEric · 11-23-2009, 02:04 PM

DRIVELINEMOTORING
Endless RF-650 Brake Fluid - Explained

From HSPN.com:
Endless RF-650 - The Ultimate Brake Fluid for the Circuit and Rally Category
The Endless RF-650 brake fluid is used in Formula 1, WRC and Paris Dakar Rally, yet
is still available for the end-user desiring the highest performing brake fluid. Within
the circuit stages where the braking temperatures reach extremely high heat
situations not encountered on the street, extremely stable performance
characteristics can be achieved. The RF-650 is becoming recognized as the
highest-spec brake fluid around the world. Endless continues in its 4th year
partnering/supplying the Honda BAR F1 Team and is both currently supplying and
testing with a handful of other F1 teams. This fluid is also standard equipment in all
Porsche 911 GT3 Cup (997) cars. Unlike many other fluids that use a recycled
material in its formula, Endless uses a pure material in its original form.

WHERE IT'S USED, AND HOW THEY DID:

2009 24-HOUR NURBURGRING EVENT:
**Pertains to Endless Pads and their involvement with much of the registered cars/teams at the 24-Hour Nurburgring event

BRAWN GP - FORMULA 1

ENDLESS USA PRESS RELEASE
Response from current victories and events

Endless Equipped Cars Dominate Motorsports Weekend
Huntington Beach, CA (May 28, 2009) – Endless equipped teams across the globe showed their dominance this past weekend of May 23rd and 24th. From World Rally Challenge to the Formula One Monaco Grand Prix to the Nurburgring 24 Hours, all teams clenching victory used Endless as an integral part of their brake package.

Italy was next on the WRC schedule and Ford occupied both the 1st and 2nd place steps on the podium. Ford’s rally cars use the ever popular Endless rally/sprint race brake pad compounds and Endless RF-650 brake fluid.

Brawn GP continued their dominance and further extended their lead in the Formula One championship by finishing one-two at the glamorous Monaco Grand Prix. Yet again Jensen Button and Rubens Barrichello drove their Brawns equipped with Endless RF-650 brake fluid straight to victory lane.

But perhaps the most success enjoyed by Endless and their supported teams was in the famous 24 Hour Endurance race at the Nurburgring. More than forty cars in the field used Endless product for the grueling race. It was a sizable presence of Endless equipped cars; including Mitsubishi Lancers, Nissan 350Zs, and Alpina BMWs. More impressive, however, were the overall 3rd place Manthey Racing Porsche GT3 Cup car, 2nd place ABT Audi R8 and 1st place Manthey Racing Porsche GT3 RSR, all running Endless brake pads and fluid.

“It was a phenomenal weekend for our global Endless group,” said Executive Director of Endless USA, Dominic Chen. “The product truly speaks for itself by means of race victories. We are extremely proud to be working with such high caliber, talented people.” Endless hopes to add another endurance race win when the Texas based Risi Competizione team heads to France in a few weeks time to defend their class victory from last years 24 Hours at Le Mans.
###”
____________________

DETAILS AND COMPARISONS:
**Photos and Spreadsheet's are courtesy of Endless USA

Used in the top categories of F1, WRC, and Paris Dakar. Recognized by circuit users worldwide. DOT5 BBF Grade Standard. Especially developed for long endurance races ("24 hours") where extreme high temperature stability is required, but it is suitable for all types of competition. Optimal for maximum heat load conditions unheard of within the street stage. Endless is the official supplier of brake fluid to the Honda Racing F1 Team where the RF-650 is used exclusively in all testing and racing activities. Non-silicone based brake fluid. 0.5 Liter per bottle.

Our RF-650 and the AP600 are very stable, with the RF-650 being a bit better. However, the SRF drops off violently when you get water in it. This means you can keep the RF-650 in there longer without having to do a full flush in fear of having water in the system. Water in the system means it’ll boil giving you a spongy brake pedal.

Now the other issue; compressibility. With our RF-650 brake fluid being standard original equipment on all Porsche GT3 Cup cars (Yes. Standard equipment from Porsche.), a lot of various teams in the US have been in close contact with me regarding it. Most have never heard of it before Porsche started using it as an OE part 2 years ago. Most of them had been using Castrol SRF.

What these GT3 Cup car teams have been telling me is that they’d put the fluid in the system, bleed it, and then go out on track. 5 or 10 minutes into the session the drivers would report the brake pedal feeling soft. So, they’d bring the cars in and check for air only to find none in the system. The actual issue ended up being compressibility. In short, different brake fluids compress more than others which accounted for the drivers reporting a soft pedal.

The teams tried a bunch of different fluids before realizing they should try ours (reason being they had never heard of Endless and they didn’t know where to get it). The teams tried AP, Motul, and others even I had never heard of, all still ending up with the same issue. Finally, when the GT3 Cup cars ran at the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Canada, they talked to the F1 teams. What they found out is that there are only two brake fluids used in Formula 1; one being Endless. Turns out the Brembo fluid and ours are the only ones without severe compressibility issues.

BOILING POINTS:

MAJOR BENEFITS OF THE RF-650 FLUID:
- LASTS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR
- NO FLUSHING FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON (FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO TRACK YOUR CAR)
- NON-SILICONE BASED
- SAFE FOR SEALS
- SUPERIOR HYDRAULIC PROPERTIES
- METAL PACKAGING TO DEFER ANY MOISTURE FROM GETTING INSIDE THE BOTTLES OVER TIME

***

FOR THOSE OF YOU INTERESTED IN
PURCHASING THIS BRAKE FLUID, PLEASE REFER TO THE VENDOR MARKETPLACE. WE
HAVE POSTED ALL SALE INFORMATION THERE.

imag · 11-23-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveLineEric

- NO FLUSHING FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON

This might be mostly PR, but if that's true, it's worth the cost of admission.

I just flushed with AP Blue. Not sure how that stacks up...

DriveLineEric · 11-23-2009, 04:21 PM

The best part about this thread is it was not made in support of some Endless-backed sale.
All of this information came from our own personal use of the product over the past few years.
We support the brand for a reason. Everything said in the OP is written from experience.

ChrisSlicks · 11-23-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imag

This might be mostly PR, but if that's true, it's worth the cost of admission.

I just flushed with AP Blue. Not sure how that stacks up...

AP Racing 600 or ATE Super Blue?

I'm sure this stuff is great, but I've been doing just fine with the ATE Blue. If I were driving a full on race car then it would be either Endless or Castrol SRF.

DriveLineEric · 11-23-2009, 04:36 PM

Hmm... Can't really speak for the ATE Blue as we have never personally used that fluid. I can say with the RF-650, the pedal feel will have far better stability and consistency over the factory (or even AP600) braking fluid, regardless of the vehicle's use.

JNguyen · 11-23-2009, 04:45 PM

How would this brake fluid do for daily driven car that see no track time at all? Hmm it only last a year?

DriveLineEric · 11-23-2009, 04:51 PM

That's the great part about the RF-650, you'll see the benefits regardless of whether or not the car is tracked.
The life-span, when used lightly, can range between 1-2 years really. Unless you're really racing the car regularly, all you need to do is bleed as needed, which isnt often.

JNguyen · 11-23-2009, 04:56 PM

Oh alright cool

DriveLineEric · 11-24-2009, 02:11 PM

Enjoy the brakes Jase!

Island_370 · 11-24-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveLineEric

Hmm... Can't really speak for the ATE Blue as we have never personally used that fluid. I can say with the RF-650, the pedal feel will have far better stability and consistency over the factory (or even AP600) braking fluid, regardless of the vehicle's use.

Sorry, but with this I call BS. All fluids are considered non-compressible. How can you back the claim of better pedal feel under any use? Under hard use...I see where the higher dry boil and wet boil will help---but your numbers are barely better than RBF600 by the way...

To me, this is like the claim that spark plug companies made....use ours and gain 5 hp...dyno proven. Sure...any new plug will help. Same here. Any full fluid flush will feel better.

You made the claim, now show me the proof.

DriveLineEric · 11-24-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island_370

Sorry, but with this I call BS. All fluids are considered non-compressible. How can you back the claim of better pedal feel under any use? Under hard use...I see where the higher dry boil and wet boil will help---but your numbers are barely better than RBF600 by the way...

To me, this is like the claim that spark plug companies made....use ours and gain 5 hp...dyno proven. Sure...any new plug will help. Same here. Any full fluid flush will feel better.

You made the claim, now show me the proof.

Not all fluids have the same hydraulic properties. Its a characteristic called compressibility. We don't have test data to show the differences, but our superiority in this aspect is the reason why Porsche AG now uses our RF-650 in all of their Cup cars (Cup, Cup S and RSR).

All professional race teams are familiar with the concept and highly covet superior hydraulic properties (compressibility).

After Porsche AG made the switch, an interesting thing happened with some cup teams which was eventually shared with Endless. They took delivery of the new cars for the year and ran initial track tests with them, after which, they did their normal routine maintenance including flushing the brake fluid. Most teams weren't already familiar with endless RF-650 and therefore put what they were already used to into the lines. The next time they went on track to do testing, drivers reported inferior brake pedal feel. After bringing the cars back in, and checking lines, they found no air and sent the cars back out, never having solved the issue. Conferred with Porsche Motorsport NA, they were told to use the Porsche race fluid, which is Endless RF-650 re-bottled with a Porsche part number. After doing so, drivers reported the original, superior brake pedal feel had returned.

If you don't believe us, some of the various cup car teams from across America will attest to it

Island_370 · 11-24-2009, 08:51 PM

I still find it very hard to believe that you will feel a difference in a street-use car with rubber lines and floating calipers (the sport is a fixed caliper, but the base is a floating caliper). All that slop in the system makes the statement a little hard to buy.

Porsche has the best pedal feel of any stock car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. If a significant fluid performance differential exists, I think Porsche's would be the easiest to notice. But in a car with rubber lines and floating calipers....

But I guess it doesn't really matter. I am not going to shell out +$150 for brake fluid. 1 liter might be able to do it, but I am always more comfortable with 1.5 liters (3 bottles). Nothing worse than over bleeding a corner only to need a pinch more for that last caliper.

DriveLineEric · 11-25-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island_370

I still find it very hard to believe that you will feel a difference in a street-use car with rubber lines and floating calipers (the sport is a fixed caliper, but the base is a floating caliper). All that slop in the system makes the statement a little hard to buy.

Porsche has the best pedal feel of any stock car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. If a significant fluid performance differential exists, I think Porsche's would be the easiest to notice. But in a car with rubber lines and floating calipers....

But I guess it doesn't really matter. I am not going to shell out +$150 for brake fluid. 1 liter might be able to do it, but I am always more comfortable with 1.5 liters (3 bottles). Nothing worse than over bleeding a corner only to need a pinch more for that last caliper.

With that said, we understand that the RF-650 is a hard sell to street guys (for obvious reasons), price being one of them. That's why we offer the S-Four brake fluid, competitive against the Motul RBF600 and offered at a lesser rate.

DriveLineEric · 01-19-2010, 07:04 PM

bump

11-23-2009, 02:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	Endless RF-650 Brake Fluid - Explained DRIVELINEMOTORING Endless RF-650 Brake Fluid - Explained From HSPN.com: Endless RF-650 - The Ultimate Brake Fluid for the Circuit and Rally Category The Endless RF-650 brake fluid is used in Formula 1, WRC and Paris Dakar Rally, yet is still available for the end-user desiring the highest performing brake fluid. Within the circuit stages where the braking temperatures reach extremely high heat situations not encountered on the street, extremely stable performance characteristics can be achieved. The RF-650 is becoming recognized as the highest-spec brake fluid around the world. Endless continues in its 4th year partnering/supplying the Honda BAR F1 Team and is both currently supplying and testing with a handful of other F1 teams. This fluid is also standard equipment in all Porsche 911 GT3 Cup (997) cars. Unlike many other fluids that use a recycled material in its formula, Endless uses a pure material in its original form. WHERE IT'S USED, AND HOW THEY DID: 2009 24-HOUR NURBURGRING EVENT: Pertains to Endless Pads and their involvement with much of the registered cars/teams at the 24-Hour Nurburgring event BRAWN GP - FORMULA 1 ENDLESS USA PRESS RELEASE Response from current victories and events Endless Equipped Cars Dominate Motorsports Weekend Huntington Beach, CA (May 28, 2009) – Endless equipped teams across the globe showed their dominance this past weekend of May 23rd and 24th. From World Rally Challenge to the Formula One Monaco Grand Prix to the Nurburgring 24 Hours, all teams clenching victory used Endless as an integral part of their brake package. Italy was next on the WRC schedule and Ford occupied both the 1st and 2nd place steps on the podium. Ford’s rally cars use the ever popular Endless rally/sprint race brake pad compounds and Endless RF-650 brake fluid. Brawn GP continued their dominance and further extended their lead in the Formula One championship by finishing one-two at the glamorous Monaco Grand Prix. Yet again Jensen Button and Rubens Barrichello drove their Brawns equipped with Endless RF-650 brake fluid straight to victory lane. But perhaps the most success enjoyed by Endless and their supported teams was in the famous 24 Hour Endurance race at the Nurburgring. More than forty cars in the field used Endless product for the grueling race. It was a sizable presence of Endless equipped cars; including Mitsubishi Lancers, Nissan 350Zs, and Alpina BMWs. More impressive, however, were the overall 3rd place Manthey Racing Porsche GT3 Cup car, 2nd place ABT Audi R8 and 1st place Manthey Racing Porsche GT3 RSR, all running Endless brake pads and fluid. “It was a phenomenal weekend for our global Endless group,” said Executive Director of Endless USA, Dominic Chen. “The product truly speaks for itself by means of race victories. We are extremely proud to be working with such high caliber, talented people.” Endless hopes to add another endurance race win when the Texas based Risi Competizione team heads to France in a few weeks time to defend their class victory from last years 24 Hours at Le Mans. ###” ____________________ DETAILS AND COMPARISONS: Photos and Spreadsheet's are courtesy of Endless USA Used in the top categories of F1, WRC, and Paris Dakar. Recognized by circuit users worldwide. DOT5 BBF Grade Standard. Especially developed for long endurance races ("24 hours") where extreme high temperature stability is required, but it is suitable for all types of competition. Optimal for maximum heat load conditions unheard of within the street stage. Endless is the official supplier of brake fluid to the Honda Racing F1 Team where the RF-650 is used exclusively in all testing and racing activities. Non-silicone based brake fluid. 0.5 Liter per bottle. Our RF-650 and the AP600 are very stable, with the RF-650 being a bit better. However, the SRF drops off violently when you get water in it. This means you can keep the RF-650 in there longer without having to do a full flush in fear of having water in the system. Water in the system means it’ll boil giving you a spongy brake pedal. Now the other issue; compressibility. With our RF-650 brake fluid being standard original equipment on all Porsche GT3 Cup cars (Yes. Standard equipment from Porsche.), a lot of various teams in the US have been in close contact with me regarding it. Most have never heard of it before Porsche started using it as an OE part 2 years ago. Most of them had been using Castrol SRF. What these GT3 Cup car teams have been telling me is that they’d put the fluid in the system, bleed it, and then go out on track. 5 or 10 minutes into the session the drivers would report the brake pedal feeling soft. So, they’d bring the cars in and check for air only to find none in the system. The actual issue ended up being compressibility. In short, different brake fluids compress more than others which accounted for the drivers reporting a soft pedal. The teams tried a bunch of different fluids before realizing they should try ours (reason being they had never heard of Endless and they didn’t know where to get it). The teams tried AP, Motul, and others even I had never heard of, all still ending up with the same issue. Finally, when the GT3 Cup cars ran at the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Canada, they talked to the F1 teams. What they found out is that there are only two brake fluids used in Formula 1; one being Endless. Turns out the Brembo fluid and ours are the only ones without severe compressibility issues. BOILING POINTS: MAJOR BENEFITS OF THE RF-650 FLUID: - LASTS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR - NO FLUSHING FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON (FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO TRACK YOUR CAR) - NON-SILICONE BASED - SAFE FOR SEALS - SUPERIOR HYDRAULIC PROPERTIES - METAL PACKAGING TO DEFER ANY MOISTURE FROM GETTING INSIDE THE BOTTLES OVER TIME ******* FOR THOSE OF YOU INTERESTED IN PURCHASING THIS BRAKE FLUID, PLEASE REFER TO THE VENDOR MARKETPLACE. WE HAVE POSTED ALL SALE INFORMATION THERE. Driftomodachi likes this. __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500 Last edited by DriveLineEric; 11-23-2009 at 04:23 PM.

11-23-2009, 04:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	The best part about this thread is it was not made in support of some Endless-backed sale. All of this information came from our own personal use of the product over the past few years. We support the brand for a reason. Everything said in the OP is written from experience. __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500

11-23-2009, 04:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	Hmm... Can't really speak for the ATE Blue as we have never personally used that fluid. I can say with the RF-650, the pedal feel will have far better stability and consistency over the factory (or even AP600) braking fluid, regardless of the vehicle's use. __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500

11-23-2009, 04:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
JNguyen Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 302 Drives: 2010 UFO TypeS Rep Power: 15	How would this brake fluid do for daily driven car that see no track time at all? Hmm it only last a year? __________________ TEAM OUTCAST

11-23-2009, 04:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	That's the great part about the RF-650, you'll see the benefits regardless of whether or not the car is tracked. The life-span, when used lightly, can range between 1-2 years really. Unless you're really racing the car regularly, all you need to do is bleed as needed, which isnt often. __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500

11-23-2009, 04:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
JNguyen Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 302 Drives: 2010 UFO TypeS Rep Power: 15	Oh alright cool __________________ TEAM OUTCAST

11-24-2009, 02:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	Enjoy the brakes Jase! __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500

11-24-2009, 08:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
Island_370 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 228 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z SR M6 Rep Power: 15	I still find it very hard to believe that you will feel a difference in a street-use car with rubber lines and floating calipers (the sport is a fixed caliper, but the base is a floating caliper). All that slop in the system makes the statement a little hard to buy. Porsche has the best pedal feel of any stock car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. If a significant fluid performance differential exists, I think Porsche's would be the easiest to notice. But in a car with rubber lines and floating calipers.... But I guess it doesn't really matter. I am not going to shell out +$150 for brake fluid. 1 liter might be able to do it, but I am always more comfortable with 1.5 liters (3 bottles). Nothing worse than over bleeding a corner only to need a pinch more for that last caliper. __________________ Autobahn Country Club (North and South Tracks), Blackhawk Farms, Grattan, Gingerman, Mid-Ohio, Putnam Park, Road America, Sears Point, Thunderhill, VIR and "The Ring"

01-19-2010, 07:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
DriveLineEric The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 1,386 Drives: Z34/CZ4A/AP1/E82/S14 Rep Power: 17	bump __________________ DriveLine Motoring Online Store: (drivelinestore.com) AIM: ShowstoppersUSA PHONE: (818) 507-7500

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