What to know about Bose
 

Well it is that time again boys and girls. Time for more information.
This time around I want to inform you about your choices when you buy your car and upgrade it as well. We will cover:

Should I get the Bose system?
Should I get the OEM Nav system?
What are my options for upgrading from bose?
What obstacles do I have to overcome when upgrading the bose system?
Why is bose bad?

Should I get the Bose system?

The very first thing you need to ask yourself is this. Am I going to upgrade? Simply put many of you go and drive the Z and do not either bother listening to the stereo or at low volumes. You need to listen to the system how you really would!! Bring cd's, ipods or other media to test your music on the system. Sit in the car and really listen, even if you're not an audiophile, you will know wether or not you will be happy with the system after a few songs. If you are read no more the bose maybe for you. If you think you will be upgrading or even adding a sub read on.

Should I get the OEM Nav system?
if you feel like replacing the system because you want more features it would be easier if you simply got a non Bose system. However it is replaceable see here.
http://www.the370z.com/audio-video/1...y-removed.html

What are my options for upgrading from bose?
This is where it can get interesting. You can add new audio to your bose system but you have to do some things in order to do so.
If you have the regular non nav bose system you can upgrade the head unit and use this dash kit and adapter to run it with the rest of the bose system still in tack.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1207075...s.html?tp=2977

http://www.metraonline.com/part/Niss...h_kit_99-7607B

To keep your steering wheel controls
http://www.amazon.com/Axxess-ASWC-1-.../dp/B00B4PJC9K

Base speaker brackets or make them yourself:
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_6601.jpg


If you want to do a complete overhaul you can just as long as you have the regular bose system and not with the nav. And make sure to run new speaker wires

Speakers
If you want to upgrade your speakers it is not as simple as plugging in new speakers and your set. The bose system has odd ohms levels for it's speakers and on top of this they have build in crossovers on the bose amp. You will first have to use a LOC such as the mtx-req5, Alpine imprint, JBL MS8, and so on. These devices connect to the bose system wires, before or after the factory amp and allow you to connect new amps to power your new speakers. Yes you will need not only a LOC but a new amp to install new speakers. Also you will want to run new speaker wires as well.

You can put a 6X9 in the door however 6.5 is recommended with a spacer ring. Component set is also recommended

LOC
As mentioned this device allows you to install a new sub and/or speaker amp to power your new sub or speakers. The high end ones are the JBL MS8 and Audison Bitone right now. There are other such as the MTX re-q5 and so on. The only one I do not recommend is the JL cleansweep this one will make you use a small volume knob it comes with to control the volume and you will not longer be able to use your factory volume knob.

The bad about these are ground loops. Bose system are notorious for having already present alternator winning in the system that when you upgrade you may bring out. The higher end LOC's are not as sensitive to this as the lower end ones. I personally encountered this problem doing a install in california. This can sometimes be fixed by using a ground loop isolator.

Why is bose bad?
Simply put the bose system is nothing more than upgraded paper woofers just like the base system below are some pictures of some base speakers and some bose speakers. Other than the size the only differences are ohms and the bose had the brand name on them. take a look. More information about the bose system can be found under Car Audio 101

Speakers Bose
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_6600.jpg

Base
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_0198.jpg

Base tweeter
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_0227.jpg

Bose tweeter

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r...jN0Yfg60_3.jpg

Sticky this!

:iagree: Thanks Matt.:tup:

Nice... This Cleared a Couple Things Up But Im Still Stuck... :(

I Want Navi But I Dont Want Bose So i Guess When i Do Add Speakerz, Subs, Ampz, ETC. (Im A Audiophile) Ill Just Use The JBL MS8..

Also, What Is The BEST LOC (Price Is Not A Problem) You Can Get That Will Make The Bose Sound Like A AfterMarket?

Nice Avatar.. I use to ride too.:tup:

Awesome!

:tup:
:happydance:

IMO the best to just add a sub would be the Audio Control LC2i. I know some people push the ReQ, but as i worked for the company that designed it and owns it, i would still not use it. It has now been disco'd the failure rate was just to high.
The best no holds barred would be IMO would be the Rockford 3sixty, it does everything, not to mention it was just awarded the patent for this type of thing. The Bit one, MS-8, etc are currently infringing on a patented piece…

repped :tup:

As long as you have the bose system and not the nav you can pull the whole thing out. There is still hope!!

The req is good but as I mentioned in the write up there are muh better and higher end options out there. I have used the MS8 in two installs and they word very well. the new alpine imprint should be out soon and that looks promising as well.

Nice write-up Matt

I'll sticky it so its easy for other members with questions to find.

Thanks Mod.:tup:

My Factory Nav/Bose System Install
 

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to add my :twocents: to Matt's write up so it's part of this thread for people that may be thinking about upgrading the factory bose setup with navigation. I had a slightly bumpy road, but ultimately was able to upgrade successfully - and want to share how I got there.

I was part of Matt's "California Builds" recently - and wanted better quality audio all around, while retaining my factory nav/head unit. I quickly found out that I didn't have any options w/ swapping the head unit for reasons noted above.

So I opted for an MTX LOC which was reasonably priced (MTX RE-Q5) as the interface between my Bose head unit and new amplifier (Alpine PDX-5). We bypassed the factory amp and went straight to the RE-Q5 and then to the Alpine. We DID encounter problems w/ the MTX unit (faulty harness) - so I had to get another one mid-install. Definitely not fun scrambling to find one locally, but I was able to. The alpine amp was powering Image Dynamics components (door speakers/tweeters), and an Image Dynamics Sub.

This is where the problems began - alternator/engine whine. If you've never had to deal w/ this - it's a gnarly constant whine that persists whether the stereo is on or off...and amplifies as you accelerate. It can quickly drive you up the wall!

Matt double checked all grounds, but that was not the problem. Upon research, we found that many MTX RE-Q5 users experienced the same thing. Whether a higher end unit (JBL MS-8; Rockford Fosgate Three-60) would have avoided the whine - I can't say for sure. I would, however, recommend one of those higher end units as they would be MUCH easier to tune the system...but more on that later.

So finally, I had to use trial and error to find/resolve the source of the engine whine. I initially tried an inline power noise filter at the battery terminal (the MTX was fed directly from the battery). That didn't work. Next, I tried an inline power noise filter near the MTX; along with a ground loop isolator. I also separated any power and audio cabling w/ simple ducting. VOILA - engine whine gone!

I was happy at that point, but still a little unsettled w/ the overall tuning of the system (didn't feel the bump in the sub and front speakers were too loud relatively). I increased gains at the amp, played with the crossover frequencies and gains on the RE-Q5, and fine tuned w/ the factory audio controls - and FINALLY, I felt very happy w/ the result. As mentioned earlier, a higher-end LOC would have probably made the final audio adjustments easier (MTX has simple/cheap knobs you adjust w/ a screwdriver). That said, I have a hunch I would have still had to deal w/ eliminating engine noise which stems from having to amplify the factory Bose levels, which as Matt mentioned, are output at odd levels.

Matt and I ventured into this knowing we were entering uncharted waters...but I'm thrilled to finally have an upgraded system w/ the factory nav/Bose system. Significantly better clarity, imaging and bump :tup:. Hope this helps anyone looking to upgrade...

-Lohit

I have also upgraded my factory nav with bose. I did not have near the problems you did thank goodness. I just used a simple LOC and it works great. I used the wires that were going into the factory sub and hooked the LOC there and then ran my RCA from there to my amp. It has worked great for around a year now.

Currently I have a JL 12w3 in a Zenclosure box :)



By the way congrats on the new audio build.

Lohit just a few things to add, not everyone may encounter engine noise it may or many not be there when you upgrade using the bose head unit as your base. Also higher end units have a lot more cleaning power so they would probably not be effected as badly as the MTX did. And man that was not fun trying to figure out why neither req would boot, all because of a bad harness.:shakes head:

Ya using a LOC to go to a new sub would not be effected by the wining noise as its higher pitched and usually comes from tweeters.

ohhhhhh, ok! makes sense lol

Man how did i over look this question!!!

The MS8 hands down is probably one of the best out there. It does so much to make your system sound it's best and it will be the one I will be using in my setup, even though I am going with a new head unit.

thanks for the write up Matt. damn Bose. sucks that we gotta go through all this to upgrade the speakers.

@theflyest1 i read ur build thread i love your car.

and that alternator whine is awful. i did an install on my maxima and had the same whine it drove me crazy. i got used to it after a long time but damn it made me wanna tear everything out and smash it all.

So if i get the JBL MS-8 can i still use all my factory controls?

Yes, as long as your keeping your stock head unit and your bos amp installed. Run the speaker outputs into the inputs of the MS8 and than out to your new amps than your new speakers.

Matt the Bose harness from crutchfield... do we use every wire? Some say for Subaru only and there are no Nissan specifics on the diagram. Trying to get everything wired up correctly the first time.

The Subaru "black wire" is for grounding which the nissan does not have in its harness, you have to ground your new head unit to a piece of metal of your car.

If there is a dimmer one that says it as well do not use that as well.

Awesome I'll clip it. Thanks brotha!

thanks for the quick response. MS8 on the way!!

I want to reiterate that you can not wire up new speakers directly to the bose system. I have been getting a lot of emails asking this. You need the fallowing:

LOC
New amp
New speakers
New speaker wire
Base system speaker brackets

Out of curiosity why doesn't another manufacturer make compatible speakers?
Bose makes them so why doesn't someone else just make a superior product?
Seems crazy to have to put in all of the above. Is it not feasible from a design perspective
or is it some kind of industry protection thing? Just curious as I've read all your threads on this and don't recall the actual reason?

Thanks Bigaudiofanat :tiphat:

It is not only because of the different ohms rating, that can be matched. The second reason is the bose amp filters the sound before it ever gets to the speakers. So replacing the speakers is not going to help if the bose amp is set at a crazy crossover range.

You need a flat unmodified signal to start with than add amps than your new speakers.

To put it in other words, the bose by default omits a lot of frequency's a new pair of speakers can reproduce just fine. So you would not be getting the best sound from them if you were to just wire them up to the bose system, not to mention a change of under driving the speakers with the bose amp.

Bold statement...yet not entirely correct.

Non-bose specific and or vehicle specific speakers can be installed but will unlikely yield the desired effect - namely improved sound quality to a degree that is satisfactory given the investment in the aftermarket speakers. The difference in efficiency, overall impedance and frequency response of the replacement speaker will likely give an undesirable effect but it is not absolute.

There are too many variables given the integrated design of the Bose system to really have an absolute idea how the aftermarket speakers will interact with the existing Bose amps. The Bose system integration include consideration for amplification and its' speaker specifications including placement. Something that without complete specifications, would be guess work when replace one component in the chain.

I agree in principle if one were to replace the speakers, the rest should to be discarded especially in the Z Bose system. There's a work around but that requires either disabling the dash speaker (if one were to use a 2-way at the door - for example or rewire/relocation) Component sets will require two separate cross-over to ensure proper frequency distribution and double check impedance responses given the x-overs plus knowing the output from the Bose amp...the list goes on. The bottom line is that it is much more difficult to make the Bose amp work well with aftermarket speakers than replace it all. That said, I've replaced a door speaker on a Bose system with a two way in the door in the past on a 240SX with no problems. Frequency response improvement was definitely noticeable.

What year 240? Post 1998 did not have the sound processor bose has now to omit certain frequencies from the audio it is reproducing.
I would rather give safe advice and say they are not compatible rather than saying maybe and someone blowing their bose amp up. Do some speakers provide the same ohms rating as stock, yes, however they may not be as efficient in producing sound as the paper bose speakers. And adding a set of component speakers in a bose system of the z is not that simple. The bose has a output for each speaker coming off the amp, so feeding a set of component speakers a full range signal can only be done after summing the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp.

I have a loaded 2012 roadster, I love the oem bose, I just plug my ipod in with thousands of oldies and it plays my kind of music non stop. You can also download your music to the hard drive and watch dvd's. (not while driving)

I'm not completely clear, maybe it's just me but you CAN swap out the bose system even if you have factory nav right (with the LOCs and everything)? Or is all the advice here for people who have the touring without nav?

If you have the stock nav there is no way of changing out the head unit, You must keep it and ise a LOC to add new amps and speakers.

If you have the bose system with no nav you can swap out the head unit.

Ah so people with stock nav still have a shot at good sound. I'm guessing after market HUs provide a better audio feed though, huh?

Yes they do however a lot of higher quality sound processors and LOC's can provide just as good if not better pre-outs than your radio. Like I said on my 1st post on this thread, if you feel that you want better sound in the future save yourself the trouble and get the base system.

True on the vintage of the 240 and I could only quote from my experiences as I was the one that installed it. A friend had his 2010 Maxima 'upgraded' to 2-ways pioneers which worked to his liking, so I have observed that it has been successfully integrated. So to say it is not compatible is not true. HOWEVER, I never endorsed it nor said it was simple, especially in the Z system. What I did say was that it was possible but in my opinion not worth doing without further investment.

As for Bose amp blowing up, have you actually witness a situation where "someone blowing their bose amp up" as a direct result of replacement speakers?

As for the "sound processor", what Bose did back then was limit the output at the maximum capability of the amp without distortion as it only allowed the amp to drive to predetermined output. Some system had an active loop which would feed back to the amp to prevent clipping thus distortion. So there is some processing involved. It had a variable equalization curve similar to variable 'loudness'. It simply flatten out from a U curve as the voltage increases to the maximum. AudioControl analyzer confirmed this. I haven't confirm it via test equipment but only by ear and based on that, I have to agree the Z's Bose system low and high end seem to begin to roll off at '22-23' on the radio indicator rather than flatten out. Maybe my ears are playing tricks but until it is confirmed with test equipment, that's all I can base it on. So with that, I agree with your assertion the Bose system "omit" frequencies.

As for "summing the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp". You really need to clarify how this is done before I respond. I don't have in depth knowledge of the what exact signals goes to the dash speakers and to the woofer in the Z's system at this time but assuming the dash speakers are fed only high pass and the woofers are fed with low pass signal from the amp in agreement with your statement "the signals of the low and high ouputs of the bose amp", I'd like you to explain in detail your 'summing' network.

I just had my stereo system upgraded this week and here's what I went with:

Left stock Bose speakers in place
Upgraded non-nav bose head unit with Pioneer AVH4400 DVD unit
Added a JL Slash 500/1 amp along with an Alpine Type-R Shallow Mount 12" Sub in a .6 cubic foot box stuffed with Polyfill.

I am amazed at the SQ. The head unit alone really, really cleaned up the Bose speakers. I have had Bostons, MB Quart, etc in other vehicles and find the setup I went with totally clean sounding. The amp was installed behind the passanger seat and the install looks really clean. Also, just a warning for others with the roadster...the sub can barely be noticed with the top down, but top up it hits super hard. Guess it's too much sound deadening with the top in between the cabin and trunk.

I'm debating between the 8800 and the 4400. I also have the Bose system w/o nav. I think i'll end up going with the 8800 for the higher resolution screen.

I'm putting a 7'' Android tablet in the upper cubby, so I'm thinking the better res is going to match better with that than the lower res 4400.

They're both great units though.

I thought my bose sounded decent but i just wanted some more bass, took it to my local audio shop. They put in a pbr300x1 amp pushing a Kicker compVR. At first i noticed it didn't give me the desired bass. Then i unplugged just 1 of the rear bose subs and now it bumps pretty good and the rest of the system is loud enough for for it... sounds good to me.