FYI - I've been involved as the director of the ZCCA since 2008 and at no time has anyone at the ZCCA ever requested "back dues" to be paid from any club.

We manage memberships (new and renewals) per our by-laws and they're pretty clear.

Here are the ZCCA by-laws which spell out membership requirements and dues: http://www.zcca.org/downloads/ZCCA_B...%2012_2005.pdf

Chris Karl
ZCCA

Robert the ZCCA only ran the Nashville convention, all other issues are the responsibility of the local Zclub and until you've actually put on a convention and find out how much work they are and how you have to rely on outside vendors you need to back up a bit..:worship:

No, they did not just "run" the convention in Nashville - I'm guessing that you haven't read the entire thread (understandable given its length) or you would know that there was no "local club" involved in 2010 because my (Middle Tennessee Z Club) told ZCCA over a year ahead of time that MTZC could not and would not host the convention. However, ZCCA dictated that the convention would be in Nashville anyway that makes ZCCA is wholly responsible for what went right AND what went wrong in 2010.

I've been the chairman of quite a few conventions including major narional conventions for various groups I belong to and I do know what it takes...I also know things can go wrong...I also know that when things go wrong you don't just make excuses and blame others; you take responsibility for them and then you fix the damn problem. With regards to Nashville, ZCCA has never taken responsibility and insted blamed and insulted MTZC and and then took months to get the trophies out.

I don't know what happened at Savannah but at Nashville they didn't count the votes and they also didn't have trophies at the banquet except for a few)...if I recall correctly they only handed out three or four trophies at the banquet. It's just my opinion but IMAHO there simply is no excuse for not counting votes at a car show...whatever it takes to get them counted and tallied YOU DO IT...PERIOD. I don't know if vote counting was an issue in Savannah but what is pretty claer now is that once again, trophies (or at least far from all of them) weren't there and people didn't get their trophies until months post event.

This trophy fiasco happening once is a problem...it happen two conventions in a row is beyond any excuse I can imagine. People spend a hell of a lot of money, time, effort (not to mention vacaton time) to go to these ZCCA conventiosn and prepare their cars and put them in the show...finding out the results and getting their trophies at the awards banquet is the absolute least that ZCCA can do.

As I said, I'll never again attend a ZCCA convention - there are many Z events as good or better and in some cases larger available for people to go to (not the least of which is ZAttack, ZDayZ and Z1 ZNationals, Branson ZFest and others)...I attend all of these excellent events and I suggest others do the same and and forget ZCCA and the "convention".

Bob,

I worked hand in hand with a couple Middle TN members who were able to lend a hand (i.e. Jesse Larrison) throughout the planning and execution of the 2010 event. Nissan asked us to put the event on in Nashville for a very specific reason - we elected to handle it ourselves as Middle TN wasn't (to your statement) ready to do so just yet.

Your desire not to attend future events is noted, unfortunate, but at the same time fine with me, as I feel your toxic manner towards issues that arise doesn't represent the community that I and others (i.e. Bryan with ZDayZ...one regional event that you mentioned) try to instill in Z events.

At no time did I or anyone on the ZCCA committee blame the Middle TN group for the trophy issue. It was a mistake which was admitted to at the event and afterward. It's time to stop spreading false rumors, move on....or get involved to impact positive change for future events. I've shared my phone number numerous times in case you'd like to get away from your keyboard and start acting a true concerned enthusiast trying to help improve the quality of the ZCON event.

As Lenny aptly pointed out, you haven't been on a single ZCON committee and therefore cannot understand how to run a 6-day Z event requiring 12 months of planning...especially one which occurs with widely different venues year-to-year, in different regions of North America each year, and gets executed by a different committee with attendees from multiple countries.

No level of ranting will ever put you on equal playing field with the teams of volunteers that have donated their time over the past 24 years to keep the ZCON event going. It's a bit disrespectful to everyone who works to put these events on to try and convince folks that you can do it better from behind a desk without ever having participated on a ZCON committee.

I have a pretty full life with a family and career let alone my involvement with the ZCCA which involves correspondence with thousands of Z enthusiasts per year via phone, email, and in person participation at a variety of events across the country. If you'd care to get me to "weigh in" on something I may have missed in course of living my life, try calling me...you've had the number for 2+ years.

Chris
440-343-1664

Chris,

I've had your number and I have your number and no, I don't want or need to to call you. There is nothing I need to hear and nothing you need to say that can't (or shouldn't be) available for everyone to read.

For two years you've been beating this drum about how hard it is to put on a convention...yes...it's hard and I've never once said otherwise; it's hard just like putting on any other major convention is hard; just because someone hasn't chaired a ZCON doesn't mean they don't know what putting on a major convention entails.

As to your (and everybody else) working a job and volunteering to help...that's how most people do it;we work and we do this stuff in our spare time.

I never said you blamed MTZC specifically for the trophy fiasco but you did blame the 2010 problems in general on us (email to me dated 09/3010) because we didn't "come together" to host the eovent - if you don't think that was a blaming of and insult to MTZC then I invite you to re-read Randy's (current-co President of MTCZ) email response to you.

You can say anything you want...you can keep spinning the trophy problem anyway you want but there is no excuse for making people wait for six months (and in some cases much longer) to get their trophies; to have it happen two conventions in a row indicates a major systemic problem.

If you don't like threads like this then FIX THE PROBLEMS and you won't have threads like this...all it would have taken for this thread to have remained buried and gathering dust would have been for the trophies for the 2011 convention to have been handed out at the convention; that this fiasco happened again isn't my fault.

As for me being toxic; what's toxic is that the problems noted in 2010 happened in the first place and then were obviously not fixed in 2011. You can call my remarks toxic...you can dislike what I (and others) have said in this thread but I've said nothing that is untrue; your discomfort with what I've said is irrelevant.

Let me say this so everyone understands it as fact. The only failure within Zcon 2011 was mine, and mine alone. I made a fundamental mistake, and I accept full responsibility for it-don't put anyone in your crosshairs over the issues with 2011 but me.


William Stokes
Chairman, 24th Annual ZCCA International Convention.
ZCCA Member

Respectfully, William;

It's pretty noble of you to fall on your sword but I somehow doubt that whatever went wrong is "your fault and your fault alone'.

I'm sure you made mistakes but I doubt you were the only one who made them and whatever responsibility may be yours at least some must also belong to the sanctioning body...ZCCA Conventions (which is how they are labeled) aren't called that by accident...ZCCA will generally get the credit for what goes right and by the same token, they should get the blame for what doesn't.

In any case, let's hope 2012 goes better for those who attend.

Take care!

William,
From what I have heard, you went well above and beyond what should have been expected of you. You are definitely a stand up character.

Amen...well said.

Robert, Mike,
While really I appreciate the sentiment, and the kind words,

All of the failures resulting from ZCON 2011 were entirely mine-including the trophy fiasco. The fact is I personally made each of the commitments and I personally failed to keep them.



William Stokes
Chairman, 24th Annual ZCCA International Convention.
President, Coastal Z Club
ZCCA Member

Well, William...if you insist on holding yourself responsible for everything no once can stop you but I've run and attended enough major events in my life to know that one person being 100% at fault is a rare occurrence.

For my own curiosity, I'd like to know exactly what happened with the trophies in 2011...if you could PM me I'd appreciate it and in fact, we can exchange numbers by PM if you want take it totally offline. If you don't want to do that, I understand and no hard feelings.

Either way, you are a stand-up guy and I appreciate that.

Hope to see you at ZDayz!!!!!!

Robert,

I will be at ZdayZ volunteering again! Even with the Drama I had in last years trip, I had serious fun! I look forward to seeing you there.
Believe me when I say: As much as I appreciated the hard work Brian and his crew put in, I appreciate it so much more now.