Poor Handeling In The Rain
 

Hi, I just took my car out in the crazy rain for the first time and I felt like I was going to crash. I only have 3200mi on the car so the tires are brand new. The suspension is stock with the exception of Eibach Pro Kit which has been great.

I can't believe the car handled so poorly in the rain. I had enough time to accelerate and get into the fast lane, only doing about 55mph, and I had to turn the hazards on and get into the slow lane where at 40mph the car was still struggling. It felt like I was hydroplaning no matter what I did, the back end was trying to slip around and worst my VDC didn't feel the need to join the fun. It was pretty embarrassing to see little Honda CRVs and coups doing the speed limit while I sat in the slow lane wondering my brand new PREFORMANCE car can't keep up. :(

Could this be the stock tires? Someone posted that the wider tires in the rain get less traction but that doesn't make sense since on dry surfaces the wider tires means more surface area to stick to.

Welcome to the world of rear wheel drive with the engine in the front. You just have to be careful and learn to drive it and all will be ok. My wife DD's ours and has had to encounter some crazy rain storms that we had out here last year. She had no problem. These cars are a different breed, you just have to learn them.

there's your problem.

Wider tires have a higher chance yo hydroplane as more surface area for water to get under. Especially on summer tires. Same thing as in the snow. You go narrower tires for snow tires to cut through the snow instead of wider where as you would drive on the snow. Have you had an alignment after the eibach kit? Bad alignment will definitely make the car feel unstable in the rain also.

I'm running Eibachs without the issue the OP describes.

OP, narrower tires are better in rain and snow. The only time wider helps is on dry pavement. You're spreading the weight of the car over a larger contact patch, resulting in less weight pressing the tire down per square inch of contact patch. And don't worry about keeping up with anyone in inclement weather. Who cares if you get passed by somebody when it's raining like hell?

Have your Tire PSI and alignment checked.

Regarding this part, YES, narrower tires give more traction in the wet because wide tires do not put as much direct pressure on the ground, and depending on how much water there really was, you'll "float" more with wider tires


Also, "crazy rain"... I've driven in a LOT of rain with the 370Z, no issues with going 60-70, but if you've got 1" of water sitting ON the ground, be more happy that you didn't get hit on the freeway from one of those CRVs loosing control.
If it's rainING and you hit a patch of standing water like a puddle, you hydroplane for a brief moment. IF that is the feeling you're talking about, 50% of cars cannot make it through that, and the guys doing 55 are out of their mind.

Lastly, if it really does rain as bad as you're saying it does, try changing to an all season tire like Continental DWS or Michelin A/S+

Most important question is: did you have your car aligned when you dropped it? If not then having your toe out of whack will make it feel very unsteady, especially in the rain.

Possible causes for hydroplaning/bad wet traction:

- Irregular tire wear, resulting in bald contact patches
- Unmatched tires front/rear
- Bad alignment, specifically rear toe (causing bump steer which is much more pronounced in the wet)
- Driving too fast.

Based on the description in the first post, I'm willing to bet the rear toe is way off and the vehicle was never aligned after the pro kit install, causing the tail to waggle around excessively.

It's not a problem in the dry, as both tires are usually in traction, therefore negating the toe-in. In the wet, the traction between tires can shift dramatically, resulting in this kind of behavior.

Get an alignment.

the old formula for speed at which a tire will begin to hydroplane is nine times the square root of your tire pressure. That is for non steel belted tires, but what it means is if you don't want to hydroplane go slower. Also our wide tires have more lifting area so you will hydroplane much more efficiently... that's usually not a good thing on the highway.

Do the math, 60 miles per hour and you are a hovercraft in most cars.

(disclaimer, that formula is for old school balloon tires, and is not accurate for modern tires, but the numbers are still close unless you have a specifically designed water tread like aqua-tread)

$5 says this is the issue.

He is on stock tires. What do u expect. They r garbage. I have done 100 in the rain, car was solid

I'm on stock tires and Eibachs as well with none of what the OP describes.

I'm on stock tires and stock suspension and have done upwards of 80mph in a bad rain storm. Its all about technique. I wouldn't try to accelerate/pass as if it was dry out and I would definitely would give a few extra car lengths to the car in front of you.

Were you being chased?

No, this is NJ. We all drive like a$$holes.

Oh. Makes perfect sense.

The stock tires have very disappointing wear and wet weather performance IMO. My Nitto Invos have excellent wet weather performance. In fact, that was one of the main reasons I tried them out in the first place and was a friend's recommendation. My experience with the rear wheels was good enough to replace all four tires with them in my last tire change.

The other option is to slow down :tup:

A few weeks ago I spun out on a highway in a rain that I never had a problem with before. Quite frightening. At one point I was heading south facing north. I'm still surprised and grateful that I didn't hit anyone or thing . Ended up facing south on the left hand shoulder. The tires were " new " Kumho Exta all season.( 18 k miles ). But due to the camber of the car the rears were worn in the center. The front show no sign of wear.
New rubber on order, but like an airplane pilot we should check the tires before each trip.
Damn scary that I could have been the " other guy " who caused an accident and hurt someone.
40 years of driving and this was the first time it ever happened.
The tire store told me this kind of wear is very common to the Zs' and G 37s'.
How can I recommend my guardian angel for a promotion and a fat raise! : )

Agree I'm running 305's and don't have any problem. But then again, I've been driving for a LOT of years!

Car hydroplanes, slow to safe speed. Sounds like the OP got it exactly right. Every car on the road has its breaking point...... Why go out and spend Crazy dollars on new tires so you can go 100mph in the rain?

you would be passed on a Illinois highway LOL:driving:

And Florida!

All sporty rear-wheel drive cars should come with a free half-day session of wet and dry runs on a skip-pad and a little slalom course prior to delivery. Imagine how many more lives that would save than yet another factory safety equipment regulation :P

I have a similar issue in really heavy rain in the Z which I don't have in my Camry. Purely due to tire width and type I'm pretty sure, but still, I had to make two such trips from Nashville to Knoxville. Slowest, most stressful road trips of my life. I was going 40 or below while everyone else was still doing above speed limit.

Tire width and the fact that your Camry is FWD and the engine's weight is all on the front

Just wait until you add more power... I actually dont drive my 370z in the rain but my 350z was like driving a 600hp car on dry pavement in the rain so it was a little slippery but learning how to control the tires slipping is the best part.

100 in the rain is not smart.:facepalm:

Incorrect - contact patch area is based on car weight and tire pressure - a narrow tire has a different shape than a wide tire, but same area and same force per square inch = tire pressure.

It is the shape of the contact patch that makes the difference - think forcing a toy boat through water frontwards or sideways to see the difference.

:ugh2: experienced similar prob last summer. Kenchan told me new tires have a mold release agent on them. This means they are slick as snot when wet. I had no idea at the time.
I tracked my car three weeks ago (tires now have10k) in the rain and it held track very well for the speed (no more than 70, ikr. Slow. But i didn't want to crash my Z). Anyway, burn some rubber off then hopefully it will be better.

10K on your tires? What are you running and how are you driving? With track time? I'm happy if I get 8K out of a set of tires with no track time on them!

Potenzas Suck!!!!
 

So, I know why my car doesn't handle in the rain!!! I was up for my 4k inspection but was procrastinating until my SLIP and ABS light came on. Took it in yesterday at 4,500 mi on it and they said my tread was gone, zip, nada!!!! I told them about the handling problems and they said this was why is was having issues and why the SLIP and ABS light were on only we were all stumped as to why so soon.
They have 100% even wear, the car was just aligned after the springs were put on a mth ago and I have a camber correction kit which is why they wore even. HOW IN THE HECK CAN A COMPANY JUSTIFY 4,500MI TIRE LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read the reviews on these POSs and there are numerous complaints of handling poor in the rain and tread life..... which go hand in hand.

My sis in law has a new M5 and her tires were visibly bald (mine are textbook bald) around 8k so I called to see what brand they were and what do you know? POTENZAS!!!! BMW said 8 k is normal and did nothing for her. Makes sense why NISSAN looked clueless since they have 2 performance lines where as BMW deals with performance on a regular. Either way, 4k or 8k is ridiculous. Reviews range on tread life from 6k -23k ranging from Ford Fiestas to SUVs and all have the same mixture of reviews and complaints. Tires should be getting ~30k!

Could this company be interchangeably using different types of rubber for the "same" tire? If my tread was worn irregularly I could understand it being something other than the tire itself. I just see them trying to say it's the springs but I have had those springs on my last 3 cars with no problems only compliments. My Honda Accord, 350Z, and now 370z.....all never wore tires before their expected life expectancy. SO FRUSTERATED AND DON'T FEEL I SHOULD BEING BUYING NEW SHOES THIS EARLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toe-in most greatly affects tire wear, they wear evenly so it is not detectable on anything but an alignment rack. Check the print out from your last alignment and see what they set the toe to.

Pretty much all of the extreme performance summer tires have poor tread life (<10k) although people have managed to get as much as 20k out of the OEM tires. They give the most grip in the dry but do not handle standing water well due to lack of tread. OEM's put these sticky tires on so that they report well in magazine comparisons for things like cornering G and slalom speed.

You can go with an intermediate summer tire like the Michelin PSS, you will get longer life and still have fairly good grip, but not to the same extreme in the dry (but will be a world better in the wet).

Bottom line, it's not the car, it's the tires. The car is very fast and predictable in the wet on the right tires.

Bridgestone Potenzas...:confused: I am sure i don't drive as hard as you guys do. And it was garaged from early November to late March. As i gain experience i bet my tires wear more like yours...auto crossing and Nelson Ledges later this summer again. I AM HOOKED. And at a point i can afford it. :tup: god i love this car:tup:

Getting a heavy car to handle well often requires wider tires and stiffer suspension. Those two things also tend to make wet handling suffer.

It's about like all other driving with this car, you've gotta push back when it starts pushin on you. I've learned that this a vehicle that enjoys punishing driving. Runs better when beat on, drives better when your bordering with loosing control. You've gotta learn to trust your driving skills in a RWD car in rain or snow..crack open another beer and speed up lol (Ohio driver, how we roll)

^That's a learning curve I wouldn't recommend for the street though.

:icon18: are you drinking that beer right now?!

Trust me. That wasnt how i was rolling on 35 this evening about 5 pm. :wtf:

Racing in the rain is great, except it can be scary when you drive over puddles or rumble strips or even painted lines

Yah, painted lines are as bad as RR crossings..