Is using Nitrogen a bunch of hot air

XwChriswX · 04-25-2010, 02:19 AM

I thought it was because Nitrogen molecules are larger than 'air' molecules (Yes I understand Nitrogen accounts for 78% of 'air' but since were talking about it). So that it takes less Nitrogen to fill your tire than compressed air, but that at the same time, it also fills your tires more effectively for even tire wear?

6spd · 04-25-2010, 08:27 AM

All that kind of information has so little bearing in real world settings and is used to market nitrogen and to cover up its true reason for being used.

ChrisSlicks · 04-25-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

I thought it was because Nitrogen molecules are larger than 'air' molecules (Yes I understand Nitrogen accounts for 78% of 'air' but since were talking about it). So that it takes less Nitrogen to fill your tire than compressed air, but that at the same time, it also fills your tires more effectively for even tire wear?

Oxygen molecules are only roughly 3% smaller than Nitrogen molecules. The gases in their elementary form also expand and contract at the same rate which partially debunks the pressure change with temperature claim. I say partially because they will pick up some stability by using purified Nitrogen as it will be free of water vapor. You could essentially use any purified gas as a fill just Nitrogen happens to be the most plentiful and hence the cheapest. I should fill mine with Nitrous Oxide and sell people "hits" of my tires.

370Zsteve · 04-25-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

No, no, no, none of these reasons are why nitrogen is used. The real reason, although hidden from the public, is much more reasonable than these stupid performance claims. Nitrogen is used because of the new TPM systems used in new cars. These units are made of metal. Regular air contains a slight amount of water vapor, and more is created with the heating of the tire. This water eventually corrodes the sensor units and contributes to their failing, ala the reason so many cars all of a sudden develop TPMS problems. Nitrogen doesnt contain any water vapor and therefore cannot corrode the sensors over time. It is used as a convenient cover up for manufacturers botched TPMS sensor quality. New units are being made of plastic, so nitrogen may see its way into extinction. You won't find this info anywhere or hear it from any dealer, only technician magazines, etc. Just an FYI, so spread the word, more people need to know of this scam and demand better manufacturer quality, not costly cover ups.

Oxygen also oxidizes the sensors. I do know that nitrogen is used in airplane tires.

ChrisSlicks · 04-25-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Oxygen also oxidizes the sensors. I do know that nitrogen is used in airplane tires.

Probably they use it to prevent the water vapor from freezing inside the tire, would create a horrible imbalance on landing.

Snakes709 · 04-25-2010, 11:22 AM

i leave my front tires alone and have it filled with nitrogen, my rear tires i fill with air due to me lowering the psi every week when i race and refilling soon as i leave the track.

kevr6 · 04-25-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

No, no, no, none of these reasons are why nitrogen is used. The real reason, although hidden from the public, is much more reasonable than these stupid performance claims. Nitrogen is used because of the new TPM systems used in new cars. These units are made of metal. Regular air contains a slight amount of water vapor, and more is created with the heating of the tire. This water eventually corrodes the sensor units and contributes to their failing, ala the reason so many cars all of a sudden develop TPMS problems. Nitrogen doesnt contain any water vapor and therefore cannot corrode the sensors over time. It is used as a convenient cover up for manufacturers botched TPMS sensor quality. New units are being made of plastic, so nitrogen may see its way into extinction. You won't find this info anywhere or hear it from any dealer, only technician magazines, etc. Just an FYI, so spread the word, more people need to know of this scam and demand better manufacturer quality, not costly cover ups.

Nitrogen is not required. This is probably due to the valve stem sensor battery life failing before any corrosion issues. They claim 8 to 10 yrs but I've seen 3 to 5 yrs.
I work for Audi and it is not required to have Nitrogen and all dealerships do not offer it! End of conspiracy!

Just an FYI! The new TPMS systems are not going to require sensors in the valve stems anymore. Indirect TPMS is going to be the future for all vehicles.
This system uses the wheel speed sensors to monitor any change in radius/rotation speed characteristics. No sensors, transmitters, or receivers needed so swapping out wheels and tires doesn't require all the expense.

Audi is the first vehicle manufacturer that is standardizing on this indirect TPMS system right now. Like FSI, CVT and DSG, other manufacturers will follow with their versions.

As far as the Nitrogen goes, Those who have used it should be who chimes in. I thought it was bull untill I started using it. Simple as that. I have customers who deny and tell us it's bogus and throw all their knowledge on why, and that's fine. First hand experience doesn't lie. Definately coming from a sceptic!

6spd · 04-25-2010, 12:09 PM

Whats happening is a reversion back to the way old low tire monitoring worked, using wheel speed sensors instead of in-wheel sensors.

As far as the conspiracy is concerned, manu's didnt start using nitrogen until they found out regular air was causing sensors to fail. Dealers could either choose to use nitrogen, and profit immensely off of it by selling hyped-up performance BS, or not and make immense profits off of replacing sensors and reprogramming them. Rip off central either way you see it. Not all manu's do this, but the ones that do, shame shame.

I like the old system of using a wheel speed sensor better, like the old buick/cadillac types.

kevr6 · 04-25-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

Whats happening is a reversion back to the way old low tire monitoring worked, using wheel speed sensors instead of in-wheel sensors.

As far as the conspiracy is concerned, manu's didnt start using nitrogen until they found out regular air was causing sensors to fail. Dealers could either choose to use nitrogen, and profit immensely off of it by selling hyped-up performance BS, or not and make immense profits off of replacing sensors and reprogramming them. Rip off central either way you see it. Not all manu's do this, but the ones that do, shame shame.

I like the old system of using a wheel speed sensor better, like the old buick/cadillac types.

We really don't make a huge profit, generally give it away anyway.

Read this article: (esp. last paragraphs) Audi is currently the first user.

Buick?? LOL
Feature Article - Audi Rolls With Indirect TPMS - 04/08

PS: Try it first...

370Zsteve · 04-25-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Probably they use it to prevent the water vapor from freezing inside the tire, would create a horrible imbalance on landing.

that's exactly why

Dr.Awkward · 04-25-2010, 01:41 PM

I live in Canada, when I had my 07 Nismo frontier in the winter, temps would drop to -30C at times. With air in the tires, they would leak on every cold day to the point of becoming totally flat. After a -35C tire change at night, I said no more and filled them with nitrogen, after that they stayed filled through the rest of winter.

6spd · 04-25-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevr6

We really don't make a huge profit, generally give it away anyway.

Read this article: (esp. last paragraphs) Audi is currently the first user.

Buick?? LOL
Feature Article - Audi Rolls With Indirect TPMS - 04/08

PS: Try it first...

yes, buick, and cadillac, among others. this new audi thing imo is just another overblown euro designed gadget thats too expensive and fancy for its own good. quick question too, are you gonna fight me on everything I say like it holds no merit at all?

Zigen5 · 04-25-2010, 05:08 PM

It has its good sides and bad sides... I've used it and you really can't tell the difference. Its suppose to make your tires wear evenly. IMO its not worth it. I believe I paid $50 for all for tires and unlimited refills. Bad thing is that if you have a leak, you can't fill it with air at your local gas station. I'll wait until it's available everywhere including gas stations..

6spd · 04-25-2010, 05:12 PM

you can top off with regular air if you want.

ZKindaGuy · 04-25-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquid_G

Scam scam scam.. Whats awesome is the "Discount Tire" and tire chain stores charge you for it..

oh and hahaha.. that .pdf you attached is painful to read..

"Nitrogen dissipates heat, reducing rolling resistance and therefore enhancing fuel economy."

What a crock..

I guess many of these folks have forgotten how air has sufficed for inflating tires for over a 100 years now. And to anyone thinking that use of nitrogen will save folks from having to make weekly trips to the air pump for tire pressure checks....I challenge everyone here in all truthfulness how many folks actually make religiously regular weekly checks of their tires other than a quick glance at them when getting into the car to see if any "look" low or who just plain waits until the indicators trip???

Nitrogen is a sham...and at $40 for all four to be filled up its just another way the vendors look to mind-f*ck the patrons by taking advantage of their youthful naivity knowing these folks haven't been around the railroad tracks enough yet to know a scam when they see or hear one.

As I stated before on many posting occassions:

04-25-2010, 02:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
XwChriswX WFLYIDNNE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: In The Fastlane Posts: 50,648 Drives: 02 GDB WRX Rep Power: 451	I thought it was because Nitrogen molecules are larger than 'air' molecules (Yes I understand Nitrogen accounts for 78% of 'air' but since were talking about it). So that it takes less Nitrogen to fill your tire than compressed air, but that at the same time, it also fills your tires more effectively for even tire wear? __________________ Bonnie - Stage 2, Audio build coming this fall! R.I.P. Abby 3/29/10 - 3/30/14

04-25-2010, 08:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 24	All that kind of information has so little bearing in real world settings and is used to market nitrogen and to cover up its true reason for being used. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

04-25-2010, 11:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
Snakes709 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,205 Drives: 2011 Evo-X GSR Rep Power: 17	i leave my front tires alone and have it filled with nitrogen, my rear tires i fill with air due to me lowering the psi every week when i race and refilling soon as i leave the track. __________________ 2011 Evo-GSR AMS 2.4 stroker/ bore, FP Black build in progress. Sponsor: DSG Performance

04-25-2010, 12:09 PM	#23 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 24	Whats happening is a reversion back to the way old low tire monitoring worked, using wheel speed sensors instead of in-wheel sensors. As far as the conspiracy is concerned, manu's didnt start using nitrogen until they found out regular air was causing sensors to fail. Dealers could either choose to use nitrogen, and profit immensely off of it by selling hyped-up performance BS, or not and make immense profits off of replacing sensors and reprogramming them. Rip off central either way you see it. Not all manu's do this, but the ones that do, shame shame. I like the old system of using a wheel speed sensor better, like the old buick/cadillac types. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

04-25-2010, 01:41 PM	#26 (permalink)
Dr.Awkward Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 39 Drives: 09 370z PW M6 Rep Power: 15	I live in Canada, when I had my 07 Nismo frontier in the winter, temps would drop to -30C at times. With air in the tires, they would leak on every cold day to the point of becoming totally flat. After a -35C tire change at night, I said no more and filled them with nitrogen, after that they stayed filled through the rest of winter. __________________ Dr.Awkard

04-25-2010, 05:08 PM	#28 (permalink)
Zigen5 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wesley Chapel, FL Posts: 260 Drives: '10 BC 370z Roadster Rep Power: 15	It has its good sides and bad sides... I've used it and you really can't tell the difference. Its suppose to make your tires wear evenly. IMO its not worth it. I believe I paid $50 for all for tires and unlimited refills. Bad thing is that if you have a leak, you can't fill it with air at your local gas station. I'll wait until it's available everywhere including gas stations..

04-25-2010, 05:12 PM	#29 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 24	you can top off with regular air if you want. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

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