Why 19?

jeffreyfranz · 02-19-2010, 10:33 AM

I want to get this discussion going, because I've read several threads that deal with sizes in one way or another, but none address the basic issue: Other than Bling, Why did Nissan go with 19" wheels on the Sport Package? If anyone needs the lightest possible wheel, it's the enthusiast who who drives hard and is willing to pay for extra performance. Between these wheels (23+ pounds) and threads talking about how lame the LSD is, I almost bought the basic model. For pure "tuners," fine--whatever looks best. But for sporting drivers, lighter is better and the Rays 19 is not. Other companies make quality wheels as wide as 10" and weighing as little as 17-19 pounds. Nissan blew it.

A related issue: Do we really need to run a staggered set-up on our Zs, or could we run the same wheel at all four corners? OK, let's get talking!

WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY.

theDreamer · 02-19-2010, 10:40 AM

Mike runs 275(?) all around on his 370z and he enjoys it, so no you do not need staggered.
The Rays are actually very good, 24 pounds for 19s is tough to beat from factory and to beat that weight you are going to be dropping 3k or more for some brands and a smaller size for many others. The Rays are very solid and durable, I think Nissan actually gets a huge +1 from the 19s in my opinion, they are track ready, are not overly wide in which you are limited to certain tires and offer a nice style.

While the Z is an enthusiasts vehicle, it is a common vehicle which reaches many levels of enthusiasts. From tuners, to tracks, to show cars, and currently the 19 provided the added benefit of putting a BBK without much need to have a very custom wheel. Some 18s will not fit the stock BBK (or aftermarket BBKs) with some "fine tuning."

CBRich · 02-19-2010, 10:56 AM

While we're at why didn't they just turbo the engine too? Or come from the factory with a high flow exhaust. Or have a full blown LSD?

The reason is that this is coming from a manufacturer that needs to make certain compromises to sell the vehicle. Better wheels? Base price up, sales down. Better LSD? More noise, sales down. High flow exhaust? More noise, sales down.

Certain cars are made to be dedicated to the track (e.g. Elise) but this car is not. Nissan needs to appeal to a larger audience to turn a profit.

jeffreyfranz · 02-19-2010, 10:57 AM

Well considered, thoughtful reply. Thank you, Dreamer.

jeffreyfranz · 02-19-2010, 11:00 AM

Another good response. Thank you,. CBRich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRich

While we're at why didn't they just turbo the engine too? Or come from the factory with a high flow exhaust. Or have a full blown LSD?

The reason is that this is coming from a manufacturer that needs to make certain compromises to sell the vehicle. Better wheels? Base price up, sales down. Better LSD? More noise, sales down. High flow exhaust? More noise, sales down.

Certain cars are made to be dedicated to the track (e.g. Elise) but this car is not. Nissan needs to appeal to a larger audience to turn a profit.

theDreamer · 02-19-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRich

While we're at why didn't they just turbo the engine too? Or come from the factory with a high flow exhaust. Or have a full blown LSD?

The reason is that this is coming from a manufacturer that needs to make certain compromises to sell the vehicle. Better wheels? Base price up, sales down. Better LSD? More noise, sales down. High flow exhaust? More noise, sales down.

Certain cars are made to be dedicated to the track (e.g. Elise) but this car is not. Nissan needs to appeal to a larger audience to turn a profit.

And that is a huge factor, price, what maximizes Nissan's profits without giving up the core of the car? If they throw on better pads (like many here wanted), would they lose sells because they are noisy or have more brake dust then the current ones? If they decided to add a few other features and the starting price jumped up 1-2k (ie like the new 2011 Mustang GT) will that hurt sales?

Vegasboricua · 02-19-2010, 11:08 AM

I'm curious. What about 20's? would that kill some of the handling of the car? Or are 19's ideal for all around daily driving and track?

phelan · 02-19-2010, 11:19 AM

You can put 20's, as some members can already attest to, but I don't think they're a great idea if you're going to track. If you daily drive, sure, it may be an option, but I'm seeing 20's as people who have the car for show-like purposes.

Again, if you track you probably will notice a difference with 20" rims on. Could get into a discussion of sprung weight, etc. etc., but I'm lazy, and I'm also no expert on the subject.

nuTinmuch · 02-19-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyfranz

I want to get this discussion going, because I've read several threads that deal with sizes in one way or another, but none address the basic issue: Other than Bling, Why did Nissan go with 19" wheels on the Sport Package? If anyone needs the lightest possible wheel, it's the enthusiast who who drives hard and is willing to pay for extra performance. Between these wheels (23+ pounds) and threads talking about how lame the LSD is, I almost bought the basic model. For pure "tuners," fine--whatever looks best. But for sporting drivers, lighter is better and the Rays 19 is not. Other companies make quality wheels as wide as 10" and weighing as little as 17-19 pounds. Nissan blew it.

A related issue: Do we really need to run a staggered set-up on our Zs, or could we run the same wheel at all four corners? OK, let's get talking!

WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY.

I think the 19s fill out the car a bit better without requiring some suspension work while at the same time sacrificing minor performance at best.

Though, I've always been curious since I've never driven a car with two sets of wheels -- do you really notice the 2-4 extra pounds a wheel? Is it noticeable more-so because of the position? Would you only notice it on the track at certain speeds?

tbonesteak · 02-19-2010, 11:48 AM

4 lbs of rotational mass per wheel will no doubt feel different. That's why it's more effective save 20 lbs on lighter wheels than to shave 20 lbs from the cabin. The car will accelerate faster, brake faster, turn a corner faster, and feel much quicker on its feet.

import111 · 02-19-2010, 12:25 PM

With the stock 19's the 370Z pulls more than 0.93g's in the corners (0.99 in some tests), 0-60 in low 5's, 1/4 mile in low to mid 13's, brakes 60-0 in less than 111 ft., and is faster around a race track than an Evo or STi stock for stock...

I don't think the 19's are hurting the car any. Also keep in mind that Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Lambo, and Zonda, along with other exotics use 19 inch wheels.

02-19-2010, 10:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
jeffreyfranz Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA Posts: 139 Drives: '10 370Z PG M6 Rep Power: 15	Why 19? I want to get this discussion going, because I've read several threads that deal with sizes in one way or another, but none address the basic issue: Other than Bling, Why did Nissan go with 19" wheels on the Sport Package? If anyone needs the lightest possible wheel, it's the enthusiast who who drives hard and is willing to pay for extra performance. Between these wheels (23+ pounds) and threads talking about how lame the LSD is, I almost bought the basic model. For pure "tuners," fine--whatever looks best. But for sporting drivers, lighter is better and the Rays 19 is not. Other companies make quality wheels as wide as 10" and weighing as little as 17-19 pounds. Nissan blew it. A related issue: Do we really need to run a staggered set-up on our Zs, or could we run the same wheel at all four corners? OK, let's get talking! WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY.

02-19-2010, 10:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Mike runs 275(?) all around on his 370z and he enjoys it, so no you do not need staggered. The Rays are actually very good, 24 pounds for 19s is tough to beat from factory and to beat that weight you are going to be dropping 3k or more for some brands and a smaller size for many others. The Rays are very solid and durable, I think Nissan actually gets a huge +1 from the 19s in my opinion, they are track ready, are not overly wide in which you are limited to certain tires and offer a nice style. While the Z is an enthusiasts vehicle, it is a common vehicle which reaches many levels of enthusiasts. From tuners, to tracks, to show cars, and currently the 19 provided the added benefit of putting a BBK without much need to have a very custom wheel. Some 18s will not fit the stock BBK (or aftermarket BBKs) with some "fine tuning." __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

02-19-2010, 11:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Vegasboricua Track Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North Las Vegas Age: 36 Posts: 697 Drives: 10 370Z PW M6 BASE Rep Power: 597	I'm curious. What about 20's? would that kill some of the handling of the car? Or are 19's ideal for all around daily driving and track? __________________ // K&N Drop Ins // Illuminated Kick Plates // 35% Tints // [ Facebook \| Twitter ]

02-19-2010, 11:19 AM	#8 (permalink)
phelan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Age: 38 Posts: 9,513 Drives: Scoobaroo Rep Power: 3406	You can put 20's, as some members can already attest to, but I don't think they're a great idea if you're going to track. If you daily drive, sure, it may be an option, but I'm seeing 20's as people who have the car for show-like purposes. Again, if you track you probably will notice a difference with 20" rims on. Could get into a discussion of sprung weight, etc. etc., but I'm lazy, and I'm also no expert on the subject. __________________ 凛 ('Rin') - 2009 Nissan 370Z With silence comes peace. With peace comes freedom. With freedom comes silence.

02-19-2010, 10:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
CBRich A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SC Posts: 2,464 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 544	While we're at why didn't they just turbo the engine too? Or come from the factory with a high flow exhaust. Or have a full blown LSD? The reason is that this is coming from a manufacturer that needs to make certain compromises to sell the vehicle. Better wheels? Base price up, sales down. Better LSD? More noise, sales down. High flow exhaust? More noise, sales down. Certain cars are made to be dedicated to the track (e.g. Elise) but this car is not. Nissan needs to appeal to a larger audience to turn a profit.

02-19-2010, 10:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
jeffreyfranz Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA Posts: 139 Drives: '10 370Z PG M6 Rep Power: 15	Well considered, thoughtful reply. Thank you, Dreamer.

02-19-2010, 11:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
tbonesteak Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Socal Posts: 914 Drives: MY09 MB 6MT Rep Power: 375	4 lbs of rotational mass per wheel will no doubt feel different. That's why it's more effective save 20 lbs on lighter wheels than to shave 20 lbs from the cabin. The car will accelerate faster, brake faster, turn a corner faster, and feel much quicker on its feet.

02-19-2010, 12:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
import111 Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ. Posts: 622 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 191	With the stock 19's the 370Z pulls more than 0.93g's in the corners (0.99 in some tests), 0-60 in low 5's, 1/4 mile in low to mid 13's, brakes 60-0 in less than 111 ft., and is faster around a race track than an Evo or STi stock for stock... I don't think the 19's are hurting the car any. Also keep in mind that Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Lambo, and Zonda, along with other exotics use 19 inch wheels.