As others have mentioned, this topic has been beaten to DEATH on EvoM. Fact is, MADOT can read that your ECU has been flashed. It happened after February of this year.

Read all the stuff on this link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...w=1920&bih=931

just move out of MA or stay stock -__- it sucks, but that pretty much solves everything. tuners are always on the losing side and they'll only make it more difficult to customize in the future.

Stay stock or move out?? Too a point maybe, I still think we all are still missing something, I just flipped through the pages of varisous thread over on EVOM,(Thanx Vivid) ,But the fact still remains they are all referencing to have their cats removed , EGR's removed and or certain system settings shut off. I still think with any tune, NA or FI as long as your emmision settings where not touched to keep CEl's from coming on I think you'd be fine. Not just the flash, Heck Stillen is Based in CA and they have a Carb legal kit, GTM has their kit Carb legal . We all know they use UPREV for their kits, can tunes..

The best quotes I found on EVOM,

"If your tuner tried to disable rear O2 or emissions related CELs then you may have a problem there. If they did the emissions force-pass then you may have a problem in that state.

The Below I would be is the majority on here.
"If you have just been tuned and all emissions pieces are in place then no worry though."

So we are not chasing a ghost here after all:bowrofl:

I still think we are, Did you even read my post , About all the guys refereing to have sensors and codes either removed or shut off. " Running no cats and or no EGR's and EVAP sysytems".. One guy even said " Now I have to reinstall my cat and ERG valve".

Or that I just got off the phone with Stillen and they said the same thing. Their tune is CARB legal. The only one they have that is not is STG3. Which on the new kits they do not offer anyway.

The only thing I find confusing about the information in the entire thread are the statements here. So its being stated that any reflashing will trigger the machine to immediately send the car to MAC to be inspected by the state police. This is quite scary that even if nothing was changed on the car reflashing alone from the stock ECU would send the car to MAC. However, how does the machine determine dealer vs uprev reflashing? Does it have some sort of method or database of every stock ECU so it can compare/determine that there was a non authorized reflash?

This is where I am confused. If an all stock car was given an uprev reflash in this test why would the car not be transmitting all readyness codes and all hardware available? If nothing was removed and the car is all stock there is no need to delete CEL codes. I would 100% believe MA has a way to check now for removed/deleted codes and send you to MAC for inspection. But I cant quite understand how if your CEL is off naturaly how/why they would flag you and send you to there.

Speaking to Dent today they dont turn off any sensors on a NA car with cats. They are putting a car out for testing now with a Stock Uprev rom to see if it is detected. Lets be clear here, NO sensors are being turned off. My car would not require such things to be turned off, NA car with a muffler delete and Typhoons.
Whats troubling here is the amount of people that want to tell us this is not happening when in fact it is. If you think I want to argue in order to spend $600 thats just foolish. But the way the guy from Uprev acted not only to me but to Dent really makes me wish there were other vendors.
We shall see.

If the ROM ID is changed, MA emissions will see it. If the UpRev tune uses the OEM ROM ID, then you should be ok. We don't tune UpRev here, so I haven't delved into it that deep.

We two maybe put two and two together , If the Stillen and GTM's UPREV reflash is Carb legal , It maybe safe to say, that UPREV uses the OEM ROM, And is I remember correctly , My first tune on my car( N/A) They had to call UPREV with my ROM ID becasue they had no tune for it yet? Others I know have ran into this issue,. So this would mean they use the OEM ROM ID?

I went and read all the EVO threads now as well. Change number one was MA getting smarter about systems showing ready or no cel when the ECU has been reflashed. Doesnt seem like an issue with most people with a Z as you can remove the cats and not have a CEL. I wouldnt be concerned with this as a visual inspection alone can fail you with removed emissions equipment.

Change number 2 is the concerning one, and it seems like MA tracks this ROM ID every year. So if you changed it, its going to flag and fail you even if the car says its ok. Unanswered questions, does Uprev change this ID? The guy who had an EVO switched from a euro ECU back to a US one which triggered the visit to MAC. I dont think Uprev would quite do the same thing. Also is this tracked in a statewide database or just at each service center? Anyone know if the inspection machine is hooked up to the internet?

Uprev keeps your ROM ID. They download the stock data, make modifications and then re-upload. You can export and move ROM files around but that is not typically the way it is done. If UpRev doesn't recognize your ROM ID group then it doesn't let you work with it, that is a safety mechanism since there are subtle differences between auto's and manuals, touring and base, sport, non-sport, and all the permutations thereof etc. The ROM ID can change on the manufacturer's whim as well, or to indicate or to indicate a revised ECU between model years.

Yes, the inspection stations are online, typically via dial-up. The information collected by the scanner is sent to MA RMV, you don't get a sticker until the information is successfully transmitted and verified.

So if uprev doesn't change the ROM ID I don't see how this stock car with no mods and only an uprev reflash could have been sent right to the MAC?

It would seem that the RMV computer has been updated to look at more than just the ROM ID and readiness test states. No idea what precisely, you would have to put a logging device inline between the car's OBDII and the RMV computer to see all the back and forth communication. UpRev does hide a license signature in there but I doubt they are looking for that (but who knows).

If it doesn't belong there then its an easy thing to target

thisishk350- it wasn't insulting it was just a poorly composed effort at showing off your analytical skills.

I took time out of my day to try to share what we know regarding this mysterious process which is taking place seemingly three-thousand miles from you.

We don't have all the answers and as Vivid has added, it's not just us and not just Nissans that are experiencing these problems here in MA.

Usually when people take the tone and attitude that you did in replying to me it indicates a personal stake in the subject. I hope this works out for everyone.

Alex

Update, They tested a car with Just flashing a license on it, NO other changes were made and the car failed. This is a Stock car with no mods that would cause a failure. So it would appear their license signature changes the Rom enough for the computer to reject the car refer it to the MAC.
Dent has told me 50 times they WANT to tune using Uprev as it is a very good product but cant afford to have customers coming back to them with rejections.
It seems now that people in Mass that are getting inspections going forward will fail if they have changes in the Rom that the state is able to see.
Someone needs to find a way to get an image of the stock Rom/ecu to reflash it back.

Bummer for me until someone figures this out.

Why is it so hard to give details, So the car was flashed with the UPREV stock tune? I like the elussivness" on a stock car with no mods that would fail", So does it have mods off anykind or not, Was the car driving for the 90-100 miles for the ECU to reset, There are to many holes in this story AGAIN. But just food for thought how does a 500 WHP GTR pass and you stock car with what you say with NO mods pass?? Just curious. This whole thread is still full of usless information and should be closed.

If you wanted to help some one you would list the mods if any, or say "COMPLETLY STOCK" not" With no mods that would fail". I'm done in here :ughdance:

It looks that way. I wonder if anyone with a CARB-certified F/I kit is passing MA emissions. If so, then it's a matter of getting a tuner or UpRev to take a hard look at every single difference between the CARB certified can tunes and the other tunes.

If you reset a factory ECU (bone stock everything) and go through emissions without going through the drive cycles and setting all of the readiness alerts, will you get flagged for further inspection or just fail? Here in AZ, we don't get flagged for additional inspections. If we fail, that's it. We just have to come back later and retest.

Looks like we're on the same thought process as far as readiness alerts and whatnot. The reason the GTRs pass is because they don't use Uprev... GTRs are tuned with either Cobb or ECUTEK primarily. Also, a lot of GTR owners have the means and/or connections to circumvent emissions laws.

NO mods=NO mods, No mods that would cause a failure = Typhoons, Short tails ect. But since you are Done here its good as you have added nothing but some foolish conspiracy theory. Maybe you should just pay your bill and move on. :hello:

I don't see why people are flaming Evil over this. It's a forum, not a class on analytical research and composition. How hard is it to ask for clarification? He's (I'm assuming gender) been pretty active on updates regarding the tests done.

I could understand some sore a$$es regarding Uprev customer support and all the fans they have regarding their software, they are generally prompt and abrupt, not the friendliest, but I do get answers with quick replies. On the other hand, their tuning team is great all around.

i just want to know if when the car failed if it had been driven enough for the ecu to reset after being reflashed...i've had a completely stock car with no tune fail because the battery was replaced and the cars ecu had not gone through all the readiness alarms...

The problem is that there are quite a few of us that have uprev and a current MA sticker. I could believe that MA has changed something in the last few months, but the evidence doesn't currently make any sense.

The current presentef evidence is, stupid people with evos have been having trouble since 2008, one guy with an EVO had trouble recently and claimed ma is checking for ROM switches since had a euro ecu and now a US one, and finally that there is an unknown car, with unknown mods which would not lead it to fail, which was been "flashed only" and unknown if readyness tests were showing ready, brought to an unknown inspection station and failed. Not very convincing to me.

If it were just readiness then you would get a plain old rejection, it has happened to me and I can easily check emissions rediness with a OBDII hand scanner. The cars are being referred to MAC, not failed due to readiness. I'd volunteer my car since I'm due, but I would currently fail as I have a code from my fuel pump.

The doubters here are amazing:shakes head:
How about this, post your inspection Month here and we will wait for your results. Keep in mind I dont want you to fail, I want to be able to Uprev my car. I just dont want a hassle next May when I go for inspection.

It doesn't have uprev, but my girlfriends RSX-S with hondadata reflash is due for July. If it gets referred to MAC it might shed some light on whats going on. While we wait for that, you ever going to give us some info on this mystery car? Year, make, model etc? Or just call us doubters when we HAVE uprev and inspection stickers :shakes head:

Any Uprev Mass inspected cars with go through lately?? I really want to get this done

Bump for any answers :hello:

And this my friends is why (at least) your engine warranty is voided when you tune your car:ughdance:

uuuuhhhh

how do i say, you're wrong without being a complete ***...

according to the magnuson-moss warranty act, the dealer has to prove that your modification caused the problem, if you retune your car to raise the rev limiter to 8k instead of 7.5k and your alternator belt snaps breaking the alternator, they still have to replace the alternator unless they can prove your modification caused the failure

they cant just void your warranty because you modified your car, thats illegal, they can only deny a warranty claim

This is a quote from a different thread, the thread can be found here:
http://www.the370z.com/tuning/61928-...ml#post1980665

I am 100% aware of this, BUT, the information I spread is NOT false info... If you're saying your aftermarket radio controls your speakers, and if the speakers give out, YOUR modification caused caused the defect... The ECU controls the engine... Pushing it or modifying it outside of the factory specs, ANY tuning is considered "outside" the factory specs, because if the stock ECU notices anything it cannot correct by itself due to your mods, it will throw a CEL, kinda the reason behind a CEL...

When people ask what mods effect warranty I explain whatever you had to touch to install that mod, usually loses it's warranty (On intakes you'll usually lose the warranty on MAF sensors, on HFCs you'll lose the warranty on the O2 sensors)
No, you do not lose the warranty on the WHOLE car, I didn't say that, I just said at LEAST the engine... They can claim more parts are out of warranty (reason stated below) But yeah, you can have a different engine in your car, they'll still fix your window as long as you're under some type of warranty on that.

On the alternator, you're in a gray area, I bet my money that corporate wouldn't replace it willingly, they will say you over worked the alternator and the belt snapped due to it spinning too fast, and you not keeping the car maintained by having the belt replaced...

The gray area is here... If you take your car into the dealer, they'll most likely go shite the belt is gone, if you're within the recommended 30k service interval for it they'll replace the belt, THEN if you go in and they check that the alternator doesn't produce any electricity, you'll get your new alternator, I agree, but when the repair is for something small like that, the dealer isn't going to type in every mod you have and how the engine is tuned, if it has a tune, and how high the redline is, and how often you do your oil changes, and if you have good tread on your tires into their system when they go to file a claim with corporate... And it's not a huge blip in the system when a $1000 total repair is called out. (I had my seat replaced on my maxima twice [$3000 as noted on the invoice] each time, as well as 2 struts, 3 window motors, and 3 window regulators and a motor mount. My instrument cluster was changed on my 370Z, $800, plus 10 days of a car rental)

The only mod I know of that can't really effect your warranty in any way is a CBE (even though it kinda clashes with the other info I've posted below)

Also, the other beautiful advantage Nissan has, is that they can say, even on my car that has full breather mods, 'because my car has more horsepower than stock, I put extra stress and strain on the engine and transmission and anything really related to the drivetrain'. Now, if I have catastrophic failure, you best bet your arse that I'm reverting to stock, but when you revert your ECU back to stock, they WILL KNOW that. (Same with things like the MAF sensor, they can say I overworked it, or I overworked the O2 sensors or they got too fouled because the HFCs aren't as efficient as stock cats)

And if a STATE can tell how many times you flashed your ECU and they won't pass your car for inspection, what makes you think corporate, who has to shell out THOUSANDS of dollars, won't do the same, and deny a warranty claim?

Oh, and I sent this message to luigi90210:
I have first hand experience with a car being declined as well for an engine replacement due to a tune, not from the dealer, but from a call from HQ...

And again, depending on who you know, shady things CAN be done, I know someone at my last dealer who no longer works there who "bought" a car from a customer who couldn't pay for repairs on his Murano... The owner of the car gave up the title in exchange for not being charged for diagnostics... It had oil consumption/very low compression, engine blown... He paid for the diagnostic repairs out of pocket like $1200, then filed a claim under a previous date and mileage saying the engine was blown, corporate sent out a short block, and once the old short block was inspected, the dealer got reimbursed for the block

Thanks but this is not getting me any answers about Uprev cars passing inspection in Mass.

Yep, sorry about that, we'll keep the discussion to the other thread!
And I really cannot believe Mass doesn't allow tuned cars

well i feel under very limited circumstances will a manufacture replace a modified engine, tuned ecu, ect. under warranty, unless they can prove otherwise

now im not sure how they will prove it, but this is like rooting your android or jailbreaking an iphone, if you stay on stock software but you root it than your speaker stops working, companies like motorola will deny your claim based on the fact that its rooted but the root didnt necessarily cause the defect, it kind of like that but in a sense different, if i tuned my car and my engine blew cause it was running to lean, than yes it would be my fault but lets say the engine blows from a known defect, and your car just happens to be tuned, nissan and other manufactures cant just deny the warranty claim cause of the tune, they would have to prove the tune caused the engine to blow

actually i think a better example would be some of the VW/Audi DI engines with carbon build up problems(known problem through out vw community), if your engine blows from a huge amount of carbon build up and you were running a supercharger setup with a custom tune, VW cant just say you're warranty claim is denyed because of that, they would have to prove that the SC and tune caused the carbon build up which in turn caused the engine to blow(which imo is kind of hard to prove when stock users are having the problem and are forced to clean engines regularly, ect.)


im not trying to troll you or anything and in the case with our cars, nissan will most likely deny the warranty claim but my point was, just cause a certain part of the car is modified, doesnt mean it cant be replaced via warranty

You guys have danced around the answer the entire time, each page I read I expected to see it. Every CARB certified part is just that (certification comes with proper identification). Stillen has submitted evidence there tune is emission legal and was granted a CARB certified id in which MA's device recognizes. Every dealer reflash has gone through the same steps, this is why the uk ecu's didn't pass in the states. They were never CARB certified for state use.

Im not dancing, just trying to get some real answers. This carb cert sounds like the best info so far. Does Up-Rev have this cert Id in their roms

No, Uprev cannot get CARB approval for the software alone. This is why even stock cars with no tune manipulation fail. Each specific tune that is CARB approved is given a CVN (Calibration Verification Number). When the ecu is checked it must match a CVN in the C.A.R.B. database, No match... No pass.

Uprev knows this information, Why they wouldn't explain this upon questioning is pretty lame IMO. There is a way to copy the CVN to generic tunes but no business in there right mind would chance it lol.


Do the Humpty Hump, come on and do the Humpty Hump :happydance:

Just came back from inspecting my Ridgeline. The guy that does it is a cool guy so I asked him about tuning my Z, he said its not worth the hassle. Getting sent to the MAC center is a huge pain in the ***. He was not able to tell me why they can tell a car has uprev as he didnt know. So still no answers on why:mad:

Did I not answer your question in my post?

Wondering why all those people earlier in this thread wanted to argue and say We were wrong, and they had no issues with inspection.
Now I kinda feel like I wasted $$ on Typhoons and Short tails