Induction parts + ECU reflash dyno results
 

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...t/370zdyno.jpg

Sorry the image quality is low. I snapped this from my iPhone.

Black line: Stock, but with rear muffler section removed.

Red line: Stillen G3 intakes, Stillen headers, Stillen Cats, Stillen exhaust.

Blue line: Stillen parts + Technosquare ECU reflash + dyno time.

In summary: $3,200 in Stillen parts gave a 26 hp increase over stock to bring it up to 328 compared to the original 302.

$700 for ECU reflash and dyno time ($500 for reflash only) gave an extra 15 whp for a total of 343 whp.

In total, it was nearly $5,000 including installation of the parts to gain 40 whp over stock. The throttle response in now extremely precise. The sound is wonderful, the over-rev to 8100 rpm is phenominal. The "Buzzy" engine vibrations that car magazines have been talking about are no worse above 7500 rpm. If anything, it smooths out a little.

One last thought: Lets pretend I gained 2 hp from removing the stock rear exhaust section. This car would have made 300 hp in this dyno. If the stock engine was 332 crank hp and it made 300 hp on this dyno, that's a conversion factor of 1.1066 for frictional loss (332/300). After mods, this car is making 343 hp on this dyno, which would be roughly 380 hp at the crank (343 x 1.1066). Not bad.

-Phim

Nice gains!

lol... ok two more last thoughs.....

After the ECU reflash, the engine makes more power from 6800 to 8100 than it did at peak before the reflash.

I had Technosquare do the install of all the parts. They charged me $700. Everything was done in one day. The fit and finish on the install is perfect. The guys there are very nice and knowledgeable. Everyone speaks Japanese better than English, but there was no communication barrier.

Nice results. In relative terms (the graph lines to each other) this looks close enough to expected values, and it's a good result. The 300rwhp baseline, even with the mufflers removed, is kinda weird though. Nobody's come close to 300 baseline at wheels on any kind of dyno. Even DynoJets are putting stock cars at what, something around 270-275 most of the time so far? What's the story with that? Is it just yet another setting on the Technosquare dyno?

So please answer me why it went up to 7800 stock on the base line?

I dont have an answer for that. 1) Artifact or 2) the dyno was interpreting the ignition signal wrong. When it was stock, fuel shut off started at 7500 and it was done by 7600.

5k for 30hp... man.. thats pricey.. Im going to pay 10k for a tt kit and make 200hp over stock.. but thats me..:ughdance:

In short, the answer is, yes.

There is a little variability between individual engines, but Nissan has high precision and in the 4 370z's I have driven, I couldnt tell any difference in power output. There is a much larger variability in the dyno's and that debate has raged on for years. I'll leave the absolute hp issue alone. Let's just assume all the 370z's are 332 hp stock. Then let's assume this dyno said it was making 332 whp stock and 380 hp after all the mods. The fraction is the same. The number is wrong because it is overly optimistic, but it's useful as a benchmark to tell what your modifications are doing.

I totally agree on turbos being a better solution. I talked to Altered Atmosphere about doing TT but I'm in Cali and smog laws are strict. If you don't pass visual inspection and tail pipe emissions, your car will be off the road. AA said it would cost $3k to convert the car back to stock when it came time for emissions testing. Total cost for turbo's, shipping and reconversion to stock would be $15,000 that I would eat in depreciation. At that price point, I might as well get a used Corvette z06.

My endpoint with this car is to get a centrifugal supercharger for it but no one has them for sale yet. The other mods like headers and cats will tie in nicely with the supercharger when they come out.


PS. it was 41 hp gain at wheels... which would be nearly 50 at the engine.

5k for 40 to the wheels not BHP is actually not that bad at all!!!

Also, i would like to add I ran on a DynoJet 7 times stock and my last 3 runs were IDENTICAL 282whp and 241wtq...Do I have a special Z? Not at all!

Really, I dont care if this dyno said you had 350whp, I'm just interested in the before and after gains that seem to be fairly consistant for the mods you have and other members across different dynos!

I'll be going back to the dyno this week to see what my difference's are! I'll be happy with 20-30more whp...

I would hate living in California!!!

I think the gains are great. Congrats and thanks for the testing. It really helps the rest of us out.

whats the diff between a reflash and a tune? The only reassuring thing to me on looking at these graphs is that the reflash helps with low end torque loss with these parts.

I dont know IMO it seems like a lot as well.
Forced induction guys I think are a little spoiled to begin with especially the EVO's guys who can make lots of power for cheap.....us Subbie guys have to spend a little more (FTL).
Either way dyno's are cool and all but lots of factors play into it(high reading- low reading- correction factor etc.) Good to see base-line and additonal power but when it comes to the way the power is delivered it is literally about driving the car and how and where the new found power is.
Nevertheless if the driving characteristics have changed and it [put a **** eatin grin on your face.......then it is money well spent.
I have to agree with Brazilbro if you are going to mod the car and want gob's more power just cut to the quick and throw a snail on that whale.

Good luck with it

We noticed the same thing. The 370Z is so tightly regulated that it nails the peak HP within something crazy like .4hp every time. Insane control. These ECUs are amazing, and we're working to figure it all out.

Reflash is the term for what is being done. You have to flash the memory on the ECU.

You're talking about the difference between a Base Tune, and a Dyno Tune. A Base Tune is an off the shelf tune that was done on some other car on a dyno. If your car isn't exactly that car, then your gains will not be the same. A Dyno Tune is your car specifically being tuned.

Glad your see'n similar results...Now, give me your ECU!

No, but seriously, if you need me to do some testing here in the NYC tri-state area let me know... :tup: ;)

Richie and Howard are SUPERB mechanics. They have been in the business a very very long time.

What reflash is this?

Technosquare.

Dude!!!! Your return on investment (ROI) totally sucks!! In terms of a "biggest bang for the buck" you just got got laid over the railing. I hope they at least gave you a jar of free vaseline for the rape you just got.

You just paid between 3 to 4 times over the average cost for HP per mod-dollars spent. The acceptable average cost of a mod per HP gain is $25 to $30 per HP.

To be considered a "good" ROI for car modding the general ratio for
mod-money spent per HP gained is $25 to $30 for every 1-HP gained. You paid $125 per 1-HP gained given your configuration!! :eek:

did you figure in that he cant go turbo......?...... some of us in more modern states have a hard time passing emisions.

Not to mention this is pretty much near stock reliability, something boost just cant claim. Coming from a 350 myself gains like this are pretty awesome! Even a Vortech kit for the 350 turns into near $10K when you factor in install, tune, extras and supporting mods like I/H/E and thats a headache Id rather not go through again.

So what's your point? $5000 paid for 47 HP is still not a practical ROI of any kind no matter what the constraints are.

That's about a 20% improvement over the usual stock hp numbers, for about 15%-ish of the price of the car.

If he is happy then its worth whatever he paid for it. He posted his hp numbers, not his portfolio of net worth. Whats worth it for one may not be for all. Thats why you have your car and he has his. I have a 900hp RX7 and don't want to think about the money I have in it, but if I'm happy thats all that matters.

No its a 15% improvement based on the 47 HP gain he reported...not 20%. Anyway you cut it he overspent for a mere gain compared to the dollars spent. The numbers don't lie, folks. No argument has any standing when the numbers are run other than he overspent and the performance shop got to walk to the bank laughing.

:bs:

And that's precisely the reason why the US is in an economic crunch..people have completly lost their sense of sensibility...just because it makes you feel good is not a good or sensible reason for justifying overpaying for something..especially to the tune of 3.5 time over.

Wrong. Were in this mess because people took on too much debt and as a country we can not mathematically take on any more. So now credit (debt) must contract with a corresponding drop in GDP and excess capacity must contract leading to mass layoffs.

If he can afford it who gives a rats ***?

Actually, people who can afford it blowing money on "useless" things (as in, not food or shelter) is a win for the economy. It's better for the economy if people with excess income/cash blow it buying parts and services, which prop up jobs and businesses.

And there's really no definition of what's paying too much for car performance. Compared to the average car consumer who isn't really into this stuff, any money spent upgrading the performance of a car is a "waste".

Ok back on track. Nice numbers. Has anyone thats made over 320-330rwhp with mods run the 1/4 mile yet???I know Semtex and RCZ and now Phimosis all are in this range.

I know some may not be into the 1/4 but just curious to see if this car can hit or excede 110mph with those mods. This would almost put it on C5 Z06 level 1/4 mile wise. With some suspension mods with this power it should be very close to the C5 Z06 circuit track numbers imho.

When you have been doing this stuff for over 38 years you learn quickly what's a good ROI and what isn't as mods can put you out living in the street and broke real fast...

There is a definition or standard that is a defacto agreed upon understanding in the performance mods arena for determining ROI....ands its what I have stated above...$25 to $30 / 1-HP gain....

No reason to fan the flames here. I'm not upset over what I paid. Just because a $1200 exhaust on a Camaro gets you more hp than on a small displacement car doesn't mean that it's going to be cheaper. The prices I paid weren't exhorbitant. The hp gains were smaller than expected, but that's why I posted this....so people would see the truth and understand what they are getting into when they start adding up manufacturer's claims of 18hp here, 10 hp there, etc., then go and dyno and find out they didn't get what they thought.

Try crunching those numbers on a Porsche, Lambo or Ferarri and see what you get.... the turbo Lambo kit from Heffner is widely acclaimed, but $30,000 for 300 hp. Superchargers for the Cayman are about $10,000 and give you 100 hp. The only cheap place to get hp is on engines that are making 50-60 hp/liter. The Z doesn't fall into that group.

Me giving Stillen money isn't going to put me on the street, nor is it going to cause the US economy to collapse. I paid cash for my goodies and have enough cash on hand that I'll give Stillen even more money when their supercharger kit comes out. I don't even care that this is money lost in depreciation when I sell the car. This is not an investment, it's a play toy. Not only that, but it's a cheaper play toy than the girls I get to ride around in it with me. When I go out and buy parts for it, it's just a good excuse to tell my girl that I'm not going to buy that hand bag or heels that she wants because I spent my cash on car parts!

-Phim

:bowrofl: So true! How does it feel compared to stock? Is it more of a no comparison, or just abig improvement?

Ditto... I would like to at least hear the thoughts of these guys with 320+ power. Do you feel you Z can hang with a c5 Z06 on a road course? What about an autocross track??

Just curious....

What a piece of work. Do the following facts not compute for you?

1) Amount spent on car is completely unrelated to, and says nothing about, one's financial situation. I make a damn good living, and no amount of 370Z modding is going to put me "out living on the street and broke real fast". Perhaps for someone who works at McDonalds, even a hobby of painting plastic model planes once a month could do that, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, different people can afford different levels of spending on hobby stuff, and you're not the arbiter of what makes financial sense for anyone else.

2) A "dollars per horsepower" figure is senseless. Think of the extremes. A very small, fast, light car might weigh 1,800 lbs and have a 200hp engine. A 20hp bump in that car is worth a lot more (performance-wise) than a 20hp bump to a 4,500 lbs car that has a 400hp engine. Therefore there is no universal performance value for "20hp", it varies by car. Further than that, there is no universal standard for how much a unit of horsepower costs. Some cars are more expensive to mod. Some methods of modding are more expensive than others, because you're looking for other secondary effects (like throttle response and handling issues and lighter weight methods of adding the same power). Think about the case of a titanium exhaust system. Same power gains as a steel one, costs 3-4x more money for the same gains. Worth it to some, not to others.

I'm sorry if my "novice naive beliefs" offend you. I think your statements make no rational sense.

:superghey: who cares how much he spent per HP.. Its his money and hes blowen the doors off any other N/A Z.. Sure with a turbo or S/C you get more HP for your buck.. but its his buck and his car and his plan.. If i wasnt planning on gettting the Greddy TT kit I would drop 5k for 330whp in a sec.. you gota pay to play.. I think you are just jealous he's got the paper to play more then you do.:rofl2:

Yayayay love!

:drama:

True. It's like any hobby. You want a expensive one, get into DSLR cameras with all the lenses. :)

Regardless of the merits of your original argument, what really puts your posts in the shitter is that you're constantly throwing out insults. I've now been called what? Stupid, naive, novice, dumb-azz? Is that your plan to win a rational argument?

If your dollar per horsepower figure is such an accepted industry standard, surely you can find a reliable source online to quote this from, with some kind of rational argument behind the quote, right? Link it, now. This is the era of the internet. I could find a reference on the mating habits of some obscure Australian earthworm in 5 minutes flat. Surely you can find some backup for your iron-clad dollars per horsepower figure. For that matter, why don't you find some backup for your Porsche engine oil testing data you posted in that other thread in same sort of manner?

And if you don't think enhancing the performance of your car is worth it, perhaps you should spend your money somewhere where ROI even makes sense as a term, like the stock market.