Don't know about the torque management connection there w/ ETC Off, I never went back and played with it as I said.

As for the throttle map, well, throttle map is going to be a personal thing to some degree. I'm not sure what your criteria is for "under responsive". The point of my map wasn't to make the throttle jerky or snappy and give you a good butt feeling, it was to make it smooth and predictable while also removing the low-RPM limitations in the stock map. I think I mentioned in a much earlier post that some people would probably think the car felt slower on my map. It's smoother is all. The more you can smooth the map, the greater degree of control you have over the throttle at all ranges to finess the amount of torque you're applying in a given corner or whatever.

Some of my earlier maps and experiments resulted in what some would call snappy response, but it just made the car twitchy and then limited control in the rest of the range. For an exaggerated example: you could take the effective throttle range of the engine and put it all in the bottom 1/3 of the pedal. Very "responsive" initially, but then you're at full throttle with your foot 1/3 of the way down. The rest of the pedal travel is just pointless mashing, and it's 3 times harder to precisely control the throttle in the useful range. At least that would be predictable though. What's worse is a map that's just spiky. Alternating patterns of compressed and expanded ranges (graph goes up in chunks of uneven slope), leading to total unpredictability in practice.

Nothing you do to the throttle table changes the engine's capabilities. You're just changing how the pedal maps to the engine's range. In theory you can mostly do the same by changing how you move your foot (with the exception of the initial problem of the low-RPM throttle limitations).

If you want to send me (or just post here) the numbers from your last map, we can compare them and see how they plot differently. What was it from, a dyno shop? (and do you have your original as well?)

I'm fine if it gets rid of the annoying surge in 1st, but still allow me to open it up. I tend to get the car moving at low revs. It's a weird habit.

I did try getting the car moving at higher revs and manage to burn the tires making a left turn with barely any throttle input. It was to get out of the flat spot with the A/C running.

These cars are so weird. Sometimes I have no lag and it snaps my neck back others times I feel like I have 103hp LOL

I'll post screenshots of both later tonight ;)

the oil is not the only culprit.the coolant effects the car more than the oil(at least in my case).get the fan mod !

Okay, here's stock (top) vs. tuned (bottom). I have a feeling this is close to the "tuner's map"

Looks not so different, but feels great. Go figure...

(Bigger pics in gallery)

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...rottle-map.jpg

Here's the hex code if anyone wants to try it out and play with it.

Your stock map looks identical to my stock map. Your tuned map looks a lot like my original "Tuner" map from my tuner, probably both based on some generic advice from UpRev. I'll plug it into Plot.

Cool stuff. Guessing this is what you can do with UPREV software, cable and laptop? Plus you have to know what you're doing of course.

Kinda OT but when you flash UPREV software to ECU, are you pretty much flashing a ROM?


Tapatalk & such etc

Just a quick plot on its own, I'm lazy:

http://www.the370z.com/members/wstar...ottle-data.png

VS the shape of the others in the first post (it's not as rough as my Tuner set, but still not smooth either):

http://www.the370z.com/members/wstar...0-rpm-line.png

Best way to tell is to use an OBD-II datalogger (I like the Android App "Torque") to do some realtime graphs of the throttle position feedback, then go do a few accel runs and look at the instantaneous history on the phone's screen, compare to your butt impressions. You'll notice the dead and/or too-sharp regions if you have any.

^^^ Very cool -- thanks!

What happened on downshifts with the ETC off? Did it stumble or act as though it might stall?

I only tried it for a quick trip down my side street and back, and the 7AT was not very happy about it. It didn't rev-match at all, so every shift was clunky and horrible. At the time I didn't even think about trying to manually rev-match with the gas pedal on the 7AT heh. It didn't try to stall though, it just engaged really rough, like someone dumping the clutch without rev-matching at all on an MT.

Argghhh... I want to play with it, but I'm worried it could cause damage somehow... I'm trying to think logically here... :icon14:

What damage could possibly be done without the additional throttle control to mitigate shifts? Nothing?

If it just shifts hard, but runs correct line pressure (possibly defaults to max?) then I should think it's safe to play with, no?

Beats me, you're on your own there :)

After trying some of the suggested maps in this thread, I pretty much just turned ETC off and couldn't be happier... It feels sooo much better.

I don't miss SRM or Cruise Control (don't have the buttons to use either anymore) and the boost in response would be totally worth it as a non-DD car.

Dang it... I'm just going to have try this now.

That is the benefit to owning the tuner version ;) You can tinker and test and try stuff out until you've got the perfect combination that works for YOU.. and DON'T have to shell out $150/hr for dyno time :driving:

Great thread man! when I do some more data logging and what not with upRev I will take screen shots

I'm with kennys370 on this. Keeping the engine cool makes the most diff. The fan mod works, with an aftermarket (proper if you will) oil cooler, it is gonna b perfect :D

Finally tried it.

Honestly, felt no different to me than my tuned map, and in regular Drive, a bit less responsive.

Down shifts were a bit clunkier, not enough to be unlivable, but enough to make me think it's not an improvement.

Anyone who likes ETC off, try my throttle map instead -- feels snappier to my foot anyway.

Using ETC off with an Auto is a bad idea.

ETC off with a manual, is heavenly.

You definitely shouldn't use ETC off with an auto, it could put a lot more stress on your transmission, those clunky downshifts aren't good for it.


Also - Flashing wipes learned fuel data, so you really have to drive it for a bit before making the call on whether or not it's more responsive. The engine will definitely be sluggish and soft until it gets some trim data saved.

D'oh -- well only one downshift was clunky and under very low load, so hopefully its fine :ugh2:

If it follows TPS, it should be a linear function, and feel similar to the "smooth throttle" map. In theory the "driving force" value should enable you to tune it so it can be more responsive and peak faster, although it won't be linear anymore.

Oh well, guess it's all up to the individual driver.

^ That is, of course, definitely true.

It's not really about the throttle following the pedal in a linear fashion.. I mean yes that's good and what you want, but really it's the reduction in "processing time". There isn't that split second delay while the ECU calculates throttle position based upon user input, load and RPM. It just goes where it's supposed to be.

Also, it means VDC can't close the throttle. All it can do is apply brakes to prevent spins. I actually did a run by accident at my last AutoX with VDC still on and it was faster than the run before it...

You still want VDC off though, otherwise it's patching over stuff you should be feeling and correcting for yourself (and there are some corner cases where it could really upset the car and spin you out of a corner by tapping the rear brakes at a really bad time).

Oh definitely. Was just interesting that it was hands off enough without ETC that I didn't notice until well over half way through my run.

Hi, this is all too confusing to me. Firstly, I can paste the 2300 curve data from your first post into my throttle table? I have K&N intake, stillen headers, sport cats and akropovitch full system. Secondl, after pasting this in what will change about my car. Please, explain in lamen terms.

Throttle response... it is all computer controlled. OEM settings are too conservative, so initially there isn't much power under 2k RPM due to the computer limiting throttle actuation. Plus, there is an awkward abrupt transition as you depress the pedal. I believe wstar's settings allow for smoother transition in throttle actuation, more natural response, and possibly more power allowed at low RPM range.

This basically means a feeling of a less aggressive acceleration?

You ever feel like no matter how far you press down on the pedal at low RPM, it doesn't make much difference? Then there's the annoying surge after 2k RPM. I think this is what fixes it, but I've not personally tried it. Currently thinking about selling the car for a dream car (one day). If not... bigger pipes, and a new tune which includes this new throttle map.

It's all complicated and subtle. The basic idea is that by tuning the table you can get the throttle to open faster at low RPM, but the normal way people do it (which does open the throttle faster) leads to a stair-case effect in the mid-upper range, which can be annoying if you want fine smooth control of your throttle. The idea with the Curve 2300 map is to still open the throttle faster at low RPM, but also be smooth through the upper ranges so that you have good control.

I would imagine a lot of people would think their car feels slower by seat-of-the-pants feel on my map, as compared to a naive tune or those hardware throttle boxes. The idea here is smooth fine control. The stock map is smooth as well, but again has the limitations at low RPM.

Also, I haven't look at this stuff for quite some time. It's still running fine on my car, but I imagine now that UpRev has started unlocking VVEL params, there's probably a lot of new info to work with on throttling as well. Back when I worked on this table, UpRev really wasn't sure what this "throttle" table actually did or what the real parameters its controlling are, it was just trial and error. They must have a better idea by now since it's so tightly coupled with VVEL control.

Just to be sure... did you eliminate the hesitation up to 2k RPM? I won't be able to much with the car for awhile (house stuff = no money) hahahaa.

All of the problems you guys are stating I have adjusted out,no more dead spot off tip in and below 2k it feels fine partly b/c I have a SC for the N/A guys I don't know.

No, the throttle map doesn't eliminate hesitation below 2k. It's not all of the problem, so it can't be all of the solution. When you look at the "hesitation" type threads, you'll see there's actually several causes. Some are trivial like cleaning the 2xMAFs and the MAP sensor, or finding an intake leak, or realizing you're driving in really thin (hot) air. Some aren't. Some are intrinsic to how this ECU operates apparently, or related to other tables.

All I can say definitively on that is: the stock throttle map doesn't allow the virtual throttle to reach 100% at low RPMs, whereas most tuner throttle maps do, and so does this one.

Understood, I'm on the fence right now... but we'll see about next year if I decide to [keep the car and] continue with some upgrades and tune. With the way things are going, I'm probably better off keeping it and turning it into a responsive 500whp monster. [shrugs]

Lol I can never get my RPMs under 2k!

You must have a very high idle.:roflpuke2:

Lol! It's right around 800-900 but a the touch of the gas in 1st gear with boost my rpms shoot up fast. Every shift after its over 2k.
I went with Jon @ Z1 so I'm guessing he smoothed it out.

I used the 2300 throttle map and when I tuned my car I saw (while logging in ROM editor) where when you move the gas pedal from let's say decel to on the gas a very bad transition so I saw the 16 cells that were really lean fix that on now you can't tell when I'm on or off the gas.

That's interesting, so it's like u constantly have accelerator pressed even when ur not pressing down on it? As far as lean spots go do you mean when off the gas coming up at a red light or stop sign?
I don't have any lean spots that I can tell when data logging or checkin my a/f gauge, but sometimes I get a weird reading when in boost from 2nd or 3rd with lots of wheel spin. Was actually wondering if its readin it right or wrong during wheel spin since I'm not actually gripping n maybe it might throw reading off for a second. Highway runs tho my a/f seems spot on around 11.2

For my situation it's not just flooring it, but just normally taking off in 1st the car ramps up slow regardless of throttle position and surges forward after 2k RPM. But yes, I do have to keep the RPMs above 2k to get out of that slump.

I'm running os giken clutch so to take off I needa put a little more throttle to get going but by the time I'm off and running my rpms travel up pretty fast. Mine doesn't seem slow, and I can't give it full throttle cuz boost will already be creeping up and it's buncha wheelspin.