Fuel starvation, who else?

cossie1600 · 07-22-2011, 02:26 PM

I thought my typing was bad....

phunk · 07-23-2011, 12:14 AM

lol well luckily we developed a solution that didnt require having to decode that post. i want to give more details but honestly want to protect the product until its available to ship. but if all goes well with the test fit, i think you guys will be absolutely in love with it. i dont even like posting about unready products anymore because there is so much room for things to have to be changed before production, but i am rather excited about this one. i dont even care if anyone else is working on a solution, i know we have the best one right here! just gotta get it all pretty and ready!

we have been laying low in the 370z community, but have done endless business for years in the Z33 world and older platforms in the past. we have been in the middle of moving across our building and setting up some new stuff and finishing up some projects, and we hope to be able to debut this product as an introduction of our business to the Z34 community. perhaps mention some other trick components we have in the works, and maybe show off our twin turbo 370z... if I dont blow it up first trying to finish up the tuning!!! (im new to UPREV Osirus software lol, my 350z ran on a FCON).

and yes i know my punctuation sucks too! too many years on forums have destroyed my proper english writing!

nismo09 · 07-26-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

15 minutes was on AD08s at VIR and about 20 minutes at Barber

Same here Mike. On AD08's at TWS it happens on the 2nd lap with a full tank.

nismo09 · 07-26-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

actually planning to build 4-5 more of them this weekend, so could be available as early as next week

Ok, where do I sign up??????

I am tracking this weekend and I know it is going to be brutal.

ChrisSlicks · 07-26-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismo09

Ok, where do I sign up??????

I am tracking this weekend and I know it is going to be brutal.

Same here. At least I have a trailer now so I'll be bringing lots of fuel cans in the future but running without the extra weight all the time would be really really nice. Each gallon of gas is 6 pounds, running an unnecessary 12 gallons is 72 pounds. Thankfully it is in the rear and low.

phunk · 07-26-2011, 09:26 PM

Had to rebuild the prototype to accomodate a few things. Its pretty much done, was supposed to finish today but for sure will be done tomorrow afternoon. Then it has to go through some testing. I cant sell them until I verify the entire theory of the whole thing works, although I am very confident in it. We have already thought of several improvements over this prototype as well, so we started CAD designing an even better model today... after the prototype tests the theory, we are going to construct the final products off the new CAD design. Its coming out really awesome! I hope to have the retail model ready ASAP.

Due to limited space and access inside the gas tank, installation is rather tedious. Part of the product has to be assembled inside the tank since the completed assembly would not be able to pass through the opening. I would probably want to give someone 2-3 evenings after work to get it all squared away. An experienced tech could probably sort it out in one evening.

ChrisSlicks · 07-27-2011, 06:42 AM

Very cool. Look forward to the results of your testing.

travisjb · 07-27-2011, 06:57 AM

phunk, my setup consists of both in-tank baffling and in-tank pumps... there are two pumps in fact, and they feed to the main fuel pump. one at the rear, one on the drivers side. in addition there is baffling to help control the fuel from rolling around.

two things to note if you are going this route:

1) wiring! you need to use wiring that is specific to operation while submersed in fuel. if there is a short, can be bad news!

2) operation of the fuel level gauge. for whatever reason, mine no longer works now that i have this setup... please try to keep it operational in your kit

also, price... if you value price this, you can probably get people to pay you a lot for it given no one else is offering a solution to this problem... don't do that - it'll not help your rep long-term... the bill of materials for my kit is about $500, add in a reasonable margin and that's your target

good luck

phunk · 07-27-2011, 10:50 AM

travis: no worries about us there, fuel system design and products have been a focus of mine and our company for several years. Fuel level gauge is fully functional. Our material cost is quite a bit under yours, but we have expensive machinary manufacturing the components and a dealer network to support. While we have taken an entirely different approach to this product than we have ever seen done before, its substance is comparable to products existing on the market for other vehicles. We have found, even with ours being a bit more complex, our price will not be quite as high.

Reality · 07-27-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

phunk, my setup consists of both in-tank baffling and in-tank pumps... there are two pumps in fact, and they feed to the main fuel pump. one at the rear, one on the drivers side. in addition there is baffling to help control the fuel from rolling around.

two things to note if you are going this route:

1) wiring! you need to use wiring that is specific to operation while submersed in fuel. if there is a short, can be bad news!

2) operation of the fuel level gauge. for whatever reason, mine no longer works now that i have this setup... please try to keep it operational in your kit

also, price... if you value price this, you can probably get people to pay you a lot for it given no one else is offering a solution to this problem... don't do that - it'll not help your rep long-term... the bill of materials for my kit is about $500, add in a reasonable margin and that's your target

good luck

LoL!
-Phunk@CJM is an Icon within the z33 community.. He knows the "runnin's", and is quite successful at what he does.
(IIRC, he holds the stock block, TT, whp record for the z33) - he must be doing something right!

phunk · 07-27-2011, 03:05 PM

^ thanks! its nice to know that some of you here recognize us. we hope to prove ourselves all over again with this platform!

travisjb · 07-27-2011, 07:37 PM

sounds like you've got a winner... look forward to seeing the details

spearfish25 · 07-31-2011, 12:03 PM

Glad to hear something is in the works. I just had another fuel cut while getting on the highway yesterday and I'm tired of it.

I found your linked article interesting (cj-motorsports.com). Is the 'starvation' issue due to fuel in the pump's surge tank sloshing or in the main fuel tank? Perhaps just a small baffle in the pump's surge tank would fix everything.

takjak2 · 08-01-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

^ thanks! its nice to know that some of you here recognize us. we hope to prove ourselves all over again with this platform!

subbed for this. Looking forward to the solution.

Phimosis · 08-02-2011, 12:57 PM

This is the first sports car that I have ever owned where it shuts off when you drive it like a sports car.

I know where it's "threshold" for shutting off is, so I try not to push beyond that. Yesterday I came around an off camber cloverleaf from one freeway to another and made sure not to get on the throttle as I came out of the corner until I was mostly straightened out. It didn't shut off, but it went into limp mode where it would start missing if you open the throttle or go over 3,000 rpm.

That's like the 20th time it's either shut off or went into limp mode and I really have been being careful to not pushing it too hard.

07-23-2011, 12:14 AM	#152 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,655 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 944523	lol well luckily we developed a solution that didnt require having to decode that post. i want to give more details but honestly want to protect the product until its available to ship. but if all goes well with the test fit, i think you guys will be absolutely in love with it. i dont even like posting about unready products anymore because there is so much room for things to have to be changed before production, but i am rather excited about this one. i dont even care if anyone else is working on a solution, i know we have the best one right here! just gotta get it all pretty and ready! we have been laying low in the 370z community, but have done endless business for years in the Z33 world and older platforms in the past. we have been in the middle of moving across our building and setting up some new stuff and finishing up some projects, and we hope to be able to debut this product as an introduction of our business to the Z34 community. perhaps mention some other trick components we have in the works, and maybe show off our twin turbo 370z... if I dont blow it up first trying to finish up the tuning!!! (im new to UPREV Osirus software lol, my 350z ran on a FCON). and yes i know my punctuation sucks too! too many years on forums have destroyed my proper english writing! __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph Last edited by phunk; 07-23-2011 at 12:28 AM.

07-26-2011, 09:26 PM	#156 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,655 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 944523	Had to rebuild the prototype to accomodate a few things. Its pretty much done, was supposed to finish today but for sure will be done tomorrow afternoon. Then it has to go through some testing. I cant sell them until I verify the entire theory of the whole thing works, although I am very confident in it. We have already thought of several improvements over this prototype as well, so we started CAD designing an even better model today... after the prototype tests the theory, we are going to construct the final products off the new CAD design. Its coming out really awesome! I hope to have the retail model ready ASAP. Due to limited space and access inside the gas tank, installation is rather tedious. Part of the product has to be assembled inside the tank since the completed assembly would not be able to pass through the opening. I would probably want to give someone 2-3 evenings after work to get it all squared away. An experienced tech could probably sort it out in one evening. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

07-27-2011, 06:42 AM	#157 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Very cool. Look forward to the results of your testing. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

07-27-2011, 06:57 AM	#158 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	phunk, my setup consists of both in-tank baffling and in-tank pumps... there are two pumps in fact, and they feed to the main fuel pump. one at the rear, one on the drivers side. in addition there is baffling to help control the fuel from rolling around. two things to note if you are going this route: 1) wiring! you need to use wiring that is specific to operation while submersed in fuel. if there is a short, can be bad news! 2) operation of the fuel level gauge. for whatever reason, mine no longer works now that i have this setup... please try to keep it operational in your kit also, price... if you value price this, you can probably get people to pay you a lot for it given no one else is offering a solution to this problem... don't do that - it'll not help your rep long-term... the bill of materials for my kit is about $500, add in a reasonable margin and that's your target good luck __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

07-27-2011, 10:50 AM	#159 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,655 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 944523	travis: no worries about us there, fuel system design and products have been a focus of mine and our company for several years. Fuel level gauge is fully functional. Our material cost is quite a bit under yours, but we have expensive machinary manufacturing the components and a dealer network to support. While we have taken an entirely different approach to this product than we have ever seen done before, its substance is comparable to products existing on the market for other vehicles. We have found, even with ours being a bit more complex, our price will not be quite as high. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

07-22-2011, 02:26 PM	#151 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	I thought my typing was bad....

07-27-2011, 03:05 PM	#161 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,655 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 944523	^ thanks! its nice to know that some of you here recognize us. we hope to prove ourselves all over again with this platform! __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

07-27-2011, 07:37 PM	#162 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	sounds like you've got a winner... look forward to seeing the details __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

07-31-2011, 12:03 PM	#163 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Glad to hear something is in the works. I just had another fuel cut while getting on the highway yesterday and I'm tired of it. I found your linked article interesting (cj-motorsports.com). Is the 'starvation' issue due to fuel in the pump's surge tank sloshing or in the main fuel tank? Perhaps just a small baffle in the pump's surge tank would fix everything. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

08-02-2011, 12:57 PM	#165 (permalink)
Phimosis Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oildale, CA Posts: 412 Drives: 2013 911 4S Rep Power: 416	This is the first sports car that I have ever owned where it shuts off when you drive it like a sports car. I know where it's "threshold" for shutting off is, so I try not to push beyond that. Yesterday I came around an off camber cloverleaf from one freeway to another and made sure not to get on the throttle as I came out of the corner until I was mostly straightened out. It didn't shut off, but it went into limp mode where it would start missing if you open the throttle or go over 3,000 rpm. That's like the 20th time it's either shut off or went into limp mode and I really have been being careful to not pushing it too hard.

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