oil starvation problem?
 

all i find in the search bar is fuel starvation problems... was wondering for those hardcore autocross/road racers.. did you guys experience oil starvation or low oil pressure during sharp turns?

i know people usually go for baffled pans to resolve this but the one i wanted was a.m. pan which they dont make anymore.. and i dont want the gtm one because it is too big for my liking... suggestion guys?

View Martin, spohn, clintforce, megan370's builds off the top of my head. See what they run. If they haven't blown a motor yet, I wouldn't worry about it. (Megan370 did blow one so idk).

I'm using a AAM oil pan spacer from Z1.

I think Megan lost his engine from oil starve, but he also had redline jacked up. It is a potential problem especially when you jack up the revs.

O think that's right. I didn't remember why he did it. Yeah anytime you go above the OEM redline they seem to blow the oil pump then everything else.

I run this accusump external reservoir to decrease my chances of oil starve. My home track is a "Roval" so it is certainly a risk.

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps997eb5d0.jpg

People have taken steps to reduce the chances of it happening as a precaution not because its know to be an issue.

yup I had the rpm limit to 8050rpm

why ? because I would lose time if I was just shifting to the next gear jut to downshift 2 sec later...
I was pretty much only using the 8000limit during those time .
And nobody lost an engine before this . many others on the forum raised their RPM. It was not something new..

Why I got oil starvation ?
99% chance is from the big spin off on track doing a *tank slapper* then doing a 360.
because everything when started from there

I went back into the pit, everything seemed fine and I went back on the track just to leave it 1-2 laps after with a 280F+ and clicking noise in the head

at first it wasn't too bad I went back home then 200kms later the engine broke down and oil pump exploded due to the garbage broken parts from the VVEL (discovered during the engine inspection)

also there was the exhaust gear cam bolt that was relatively quite loose on the same side, I remember I could have un-tighten it by hand mostly... (10-15ft/pds max!!)


so yeah I made a custom inside baffle and added an Accusump !!

Accusump is a must !!!! well, a minimum I recommend now.

Megan370z, how long have you ran the accusump? I looked at adding one at one point and found reviews where people claimed they had problems long term with leaks so I didn't order one but I still like the idea. Where do you run your oil level at with it? I ask because I would think you would normally want your oil full but if it had to add oil then do you have to drain it or does it pump back into the accusump?

I had it installed last winter.
There has been some leakage but this was due to the fitting not being tight enough which was my fault .

I haven't seen any leak at the unit itself yet and its been at 80-85psi full of oil since the last time I dropped the Z in my garage few 3 months ago.

If you track your Z, I strongly suggest anybody to get one !!! this can/could/will save you a lot of $$ down the road.

My oil level ? Its where it should be. you do need to fill the Accusump the first time you install it which you need to go gradually. I do it in 3 shot after an oil change which mine is their biggest Accusump.

I run with a manual valve by the center console when I first start it and right before shutting off the engine.

http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...-stavation.jpg

********, less than a handful of failures from oil starvation. You are more likely to get into a wreck than blowing up from oil starve.

you are right on this,

There isn't a whole lot that will blow their engine from oil starvation on the VQ platform from what Ive seen so far.

I wasn't lucky that day !
but this doesn't remove the fact that for the cost of an Accusump and the price of paying a whole engine and time its gonna take.
I strongly suggest to get an Accusump setup at minimum !

You can say the same about track insurance and many other pre cautions. To 75% of the people it will never be a problem

I still agree to this but I'm more talking to those 25% of peoples that seriously race the Z. the rest I don't exactly care.

All I'm saying is at minimum since I blew the engine I do recommend at minimum to have one.

Aren't those track insurance only to cover the damage you have done to the track and medical and not the actual car ?
I don't know anybody who took one but I keep hearing that same type of coverage, I never really did a research on this though.

I have a hard time believing you can get a track insurance for the car... it would be to easy to destroy it and get a replacement !! hehe

You can get track insurance that covers the car, I have only had my Z 8 month so I take out track insurance when I go! It would cover the $25K I owe plus the $15K in upgrades if I totaled it. I couldn't bring myself to track it if I thought a mistake could cost me $40K plus!

Yeah 25k is better than a slap in the face .. hehe

Thanks for the info, I will talk to the guys at the shop about it. I also remember seeing something about if it gets over pressured it has a valve that releases oil, has that ever happened with yours? I don't want to be the guy on the track with the 007 oil slick!

A sump spacer and/or extended sump with baffles will provide an additional litre or so, which will be a reasonable safety margin for most track-day aficionado's using R-Spec tyres (RS-3, AD08, R888 etc) where the session length is 15 minutes.

Running full race (longer duration events, full slicks), then an Accusump is the minimum insurance, but serious amateur or semi-pro competition then the only solution is a dry-sump system.

I track my car regularly, use Yoki A048 or Dunlop DZ03G R-Spec's, and once a year run in a 6-hour relay where duration is 30-minutes and I do not get surge with a JWT sump extender, oil cooler and an additional litre of oil in the engine.

However, if I was "racing", I'd install a Dailey Engineering dry-sump.

Tread you own path, make your own decisions.

The safety valve is set quite high. I cant remember on top of my head but you need a serious issue to pop the valve at 200psi+

This is why it shouldnt be in the car unless the safety valve is setup to dump the oil someplace else other that just by the Accusump itself.

The car is a DD on street tires and we run 25 min sessions, nothing serious. I just want to have as much safety for the motor as I can have reasonably. The car has a lot more power than the last time I tracked and I want it to stay that way. Last time we went to Sebring we trashed the motor of a 650 HP Trans-Am because of oiling problems and it has me a little gun shy.

Thank you both for your input!

Yes you must be the only person serious because I don't recall many stories about people losing motor. Perhaps you should be looking at your 8000 rpm redline instead of blaming the design of the motor.

They have track insurance for some events, usually with about 20% deductible and they cost the same as a track day.

You must have something for me . You keep comming....
Not my fault if you cant see the facts.

VVEL got damaged due to oil starvation that was caused from the big tank slapper and doing an additional 360 after the tank slapper happenned.

this is serious and yeah there a very big chance the vvel got damaged because of this ... it was not at a point on the track I was at full revs...
I took the exit at like 300feets from where it happenned..

I couldnt complete another 1-2 laps after I went back on the track when the car cooled down ...the vvel got broke at that point then I left the track and whem home driving the car at low speed then 200kms the oil pump exploded because of all the crap....

so yeah stop saying that I must be the only serious guy that track his Z because as far as I know there is quite a few on here . Mike.spoon.travisjb.bgtv and many other . So stop that crap on me .

Also read what bgtv just said which is even worst than what I strongly suggest... why arent you on him ?

by the word worst . I meant he recommend something even more expensive that what I suggest

imma get a Accusump eventually, but AFTER i do the Phunk Road race fuel pump, setup a diff cooler, and get a second set of track wheels :P

I really don't have anything against you. I just found it stupid to say the oil pump is necessary when there are only a handful of failures. I am sure others have done tank slappers and they don't end up with blown motors. I think you just stressed the crap out of your motor when you ran it at 8000RPM. It's simple math.

that's your option. :ugh2:

OK read carefully now I'm repeating something and making it short for you.
My opinion and fact is after that tank slapper/360, I went back into the pit, cooled down, when back up on the track doing a warm up and couldn't even finish it, so what is the most probable issue there ? 99% chance is Oil Starvation you cannot deny it. that's a fact of how it happened to ME.
CAN YOU FK UNDERSTAND THAT ?

like BGTV nicely said;''Tread you own path, make your own decisions.''
The OP basically asked our opinion, mine isn't good ? yours is better ?

so who's stupid now.

now target somebody else who mentioned about other less/more expensive preventive safety measures.

I'm done with you kid.

I am simply saying your one motor blowing up doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. The odds are low

hmm.. thanks everyone that pitched in their experiences and gave their opinions... i am currently leaning toward a oil accusump unless i come across a baffled pan first.

I did agreed with some of your previous comments before in this very thread and yes.
the odd are low/very low but some peoples doesn't want to take the risk.:tup:

That's why I brought up you are more likely to wreck than blowing motor. If you want to be safe, that's fine. I just want to point out there are simply not many blow ups

Same with overheated oil too

haha, first Cossie and i get in it about the VQ engine bearings and oil temps, now its him Vs Megan370z about oil starvation. Mental note, never get in a discussion with cossie about oil :P

no kidding , I just wanted to punch him last night.

But in the end we still proved our point which is what matter.
It can be resumed to a low probably risk but it is still a risk to run without it. and this also been supported by somebody else who has a lot more experience than me on this subject ( since I just started in 2007 on the track)

historically on this forum, Cossie feels 250+ oil temp is fine for Vq37s and they will never oil starve ;) (flame suit ENGAGED!)

I'm not gonna be involve in the possible war on this subject !

all I'm saying will be, there is a reason why Nissan decided to configure the ECU to reduce power starting at 220F and put a big limiter at 260F

It is relatively fine if using a good oil but not optimal.
As for oil starvation, the risk are low/very low. its far to be like those GM engine though !!!

i knew about the 260+ limp mode, but didnt know about the power reduction at 220, if thats the case that sucks cause after just a warm up lap our oil is at 220 LOL even with my huge 34 row oil cooler (with shrouding) and CSF radiator LOL. im trying out another radiator next event, but i think im going to end up needed a second oil cooler core if i gotta stay under 220 for full power

I forgot you guys are the only ones that track seriously, how do I dare compare to my car to your superior machines. Speaking of which, I think it might be time to change oil after 4000 miles and 8 days this time. Car hasn't burnt much oil yet.

Your car must be setup differently. My car made basically the same power when it's oil at 190 or 250. Dyno and datalogs to back it up

not sure if serious now....:facepalm:


edit; wait a minute, you did say previously I was the only one that was tracking seriously my Z ...
Now , its me and Clintfocus.. that's not cool ! I will steal YOUR word and I am the only one !!!!!!!
So tomorrow you will add the next guy into the mix of seriously tracking our Z if someone want to jump in which wont necessary agree with you at 100%

I was waiting for you to start arguing on me again

there it is;

I will answer to this losing power starting at 220F because this is what I found during dyno testing different stuff 2011.

this picture show 4 lines starting at 90C to 104C which is the last one (pink/purple)

http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...pink-104-c.jpg


soo now where is YOUR Data and facts ?????

:shakes head:


:ninja3:
EDIT; before you argue that my dyno sheet is false because it show over800 ft/pds wel take the number and divide it by the gear ratio

did you not notice the smiley faces after my posts? HAHAH i've come to the conclusion we can agree to disagree on certain aspects of the 370z, im not trying to bash you :P

ive been tracking since 05 bro :P