Stock suspension done at 20k
 

I don't have a lot of miles on my car, but is it possible for the suspension to be worn out at 20 to 25k miles. I just seen to have a tough time running with people I normally am able to. Any suggestions on good cool overs? Thx

I don't know but I guess anything is possible if you squint your eyes and wish really hard.

While they're not coilovers, I'd recommend Koni Yellows if you already have aftermarket springs. You can adjust the dampening by a good range to suit your needs. I love them.

Do you have springs?
If so, yes, it is possible, otherwise, it could be sag

dAvenue,

I was look7ng at the Koni's today teying to see where the adjusters are located. I couldn't really see from the pics I saw. On the rwars it looks like you depress a detent then twist the shock body xloxkwise of counter CW for more or less.

do the front work the same way or is the adjuster at the top of the strut rower. I was looking at these with the swift springs for aurocross and some trak HDPE eventa.

Thanks

Kinda vague on the description. Maybe post some times, what feels different, etc. 20K seems pretty early, but if you have been tracking/AX very hard for 20K then it's possible. Figure one mile at a track is equal to like ~ 7 miles on the road or something like that. You would expect a suspension under normal DD to only last around 50-60K or so.

Sounds like an excuse to buy an upgrade ;).

The fronts are adjusted on top of the strut tower; easy access. The rears have to be removed; the dampening is set with a pin that rotates the slotted adjuster.

Koni North America - ITT

My car is completely stock. I actually noticed the problem last year at the track, but I just thought it was the decline of my driving skills and being older that were causing myself to slow down. While I still believe that to be true, I do find it weird the car is leaning all over the place. Someone who was following me had shots of my car leaning all over the place in the turns, my car just had uncontrollable sway. In the car, I had no confidence whatsoever when driving. Unfortunately I never had a chance to run against other stock cars as everyone I saw was modded. I ended up being about 3 seconds behind a Mustang 5.0 with coilovers and exhaust, 4.5 sec behind a 997.2 GT3 and 4 sec behind a Camaro SS with coilovers and exhaust in a 3 miles track. To make it worse, the stupid car started to slow down later in the day for whatever reason too. I think I took some bad advice and drove a different line, I ended up losing a second on that.

I also believe the grip provided by the RS3 is really magnifying the issue too.

Oh yeah, the freaking diff was starting to act up too. I think it became an open diff in the later sessions, causing massive inner wheel spins.

No logs yet, too tired to do anything now

20k to 25k certainly isn't early for a car that sees substantial aggressive use. That sounds like a normal life span for a damper if you ask me given the circumstances. Normal street drivers will see 50k to 75k life spans for their suspension, but for us it's really not uncommon at all to see them worn down early like that. And you hit the nail on the head with the RS3 tires amplifying the issue. It's simple, add a ton more grip and subject the suspension to extremely intense suspension forces for extended periods of time and you'll have a shorter suspension life span. Same thing goes for tires. I rip through tires on every sports car I have owned in anywhere from 8k to 15k with mixed HPDE, street and autocross use. Time for you to rebuild or replace your dampers man.

^^^ or buy Nismo dampeners from me!

The Nismo dampers aren't stiff enough for what I want to do. I am looking for KW V3s, unless you guys have other suggestions. I just want to make sure it is a suspension problem before I go ahead and spend $2K on it.

So here is a different angle I am looking at. I had the G plots overlaid with the tracks I did in the past. I understand tracks can have different effect on how hard you can go around the corner, but all I try to look for is trends. If you look at the charts below, you could see I was pulling more G in the track days when my car was newer. I don't know if it is related to the new RS3 I got, but I doubt it as they should be faster than the RE11s.

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/7294/26dl.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img198/4761/few6.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/5394/ni0f.jpg

Robi Spec'd KW Variant 3 Clubsport vs BC Racing ER Type Coilovers from RA.

Swift springs either way.

track use and higher grip tires, plus all the DD miles. for sure you can wear out the stock dampers in that time frame.

KW V3s when set at the correct height, trimmed down rear bump stop and remove front black bump stop (not the yellow one) and correct damper settings are super comfortable and handle great. I recommend a larger front sway bar to compliment your wide front tires though

I've never really been a huge fan of suspensions manufactured in Asia because they tend to go overly aggressive on valving their dampers, but I guess the best answer depends on where you're going with your car. Always very highly sprung and may be a better choice for a Time Attack car. Friends of mine that work on Grand-AM cars say they run JRZ or Ohlins setups typically, which are obviously crazy expensive but amazing suspensions, but then run Bilstein for endurance racing because of the durability of the dampers. I am pretty sure they make PSS10's for the 370Z although they don't seem widely popular. I've always loved Bilstein setups I have had or ridden in. KWs are never a bad choice on any platform. I had BC coilovers in the past on another car and they were really harsh and the entire suspension corroded and locked up so badly that the coilovers were nearly garbage afterwards. Another friend of mine had 3 out of 4 dampers fail within 5k miles on the suspension. Just my $.02

Are they good to buy used?

I don't know if pss 10 is available. If so, I want to get a used set and have custom specs put in

Depends on the suspension, but typically that's one component I would prefer to buy new. People will say all "highway miles" or only 5k on the suspension and you have no idea really... I guess use your judgement on what looks to be in good shape. I would like the satisfaction and comfort of brand new dampers covered by a warranty of some type.

I think I saw the PSS10 on ZSpeed, but not too sure. Back in my BMW days Ground Control let you essentially build your own setup from scratch. Custom spring rates, spring lengths, dampers custom valved etc. It was sweet if you wanted to do your own thing and knew how to setup a car. I had a nasty suspension setup for my STi with custom double adjustable Koni dampers with independent rebound and bump adjustment. Too bad they don't have any offerings for the 370Z.

I tend to like European designed dampers. The critical dampening rates tend to be much lower so it's a lot more compliant over bumps which makes things a lot easier on the car for longer term durability and comfort. Softer doesn't necessarily mean slower... Gone are the days of super stiff, bone shattering suspension for quick times. I haven't explored a whole lot myself for the 370Z because I just got one and I like the car stock right now, but I would explore Bilstein, Koni, KW and other offerings before going straight to like BC, Cusco etc.

There's two or three 370Zs that race in the Continental series or whichever the series is. They're at Lime Rock Park this weekend. I think one of the guys on the team is on this board, but I would consult their experience to see what setups they've been running for the best real world advice. When I choose suspension I consider price, durability, warranty, dampers/springs offered.

KW is $2K and PSS10 Bilsteins are $2.5K. I am going to sleep on it to make sure they are really worth it. Worst case scenario, I might just pop a set of sway bars in to see if it will get me through the winter.

Can't really go wrong with thicker sway bars. If your dampers are toast though it will be a little like putting a band-aid on a broken arm. Ask around, see what others think, try and get a ride or drive a car that's running that suspension. KW is more proven on the 370Z platform than the Bilstein, but that doesn't mean it's better though. :tup:

[QUOTE=dAvenue;2501570]"I don't know but I guess anything is possible if you squint your eyes and wish really hard."

^ made my day

Have you checked your dampers yet see if any of them are leaking?
It's could also be a suspension bushing issue. You said it was leaning all over the place in the turns, was the car loose at all?
Also if your having diff issue that could be a cause of loosing time. I would also go over the whole car, and check out everything before trying to band-aid it with sway bars which could lead to another issue.

My two cent is, I really like the Tein coils. Flex and Mono Flex, and the EDFC is awesome to play with. Though some racing syndicates won't allow you to run it on course, and I hear good things about their new EDFC active. You can also get custom valving and have them rebuilt here in the states when the time comes.

NISSAN 370Z

Agreed! Check everything first man. EDFC does seem pretty cool.

If you really want to be serious about your coilover selection check out the shock dynos for the dampers. If you don't know how to read them I will read them for you if you post them up so you can get a sense of their behavior. Not sure if anyone has plotted any shocks for out of the box 370Z coilover suspensions, but they're nice to look at and can give you some key insight into how they will feel.

You don't have to remove the rears. You need to jack the car or just the rear left then right. Adjustment is done with a tool, or 7/64th allen key.

KW V3's are a good product, sort of like a super enthusiast product. Not sure they end up being any better than a set of Konis and some swift springs. Personally if I had to choose I would go with good shocks and springs over the V3's. Longer wear and less up front.

Sounds like you are fairly serious at going to the track, if that's the case you really want to explore your options on a suspension purchase and do your homework. Going straight to a coilover 2 way adjustable damper is going to be an enormous change-and it's a substantial purchase. I am a bit in the same boat myself, after 2 months of reading everything I can- I still can't decide.

What part of cali are you in? There are a few guys here that can tell you much much more about it than I can, but it is no minor thing to go from OEM suspension to 2 way adjustable coils. That being said, the KW's are a well tuned "one size fits all" product that I am sure you would be happy with. Do some research first though.

cant compare the V3s to a koni and swfit spring combo. The KW dampers have alot of control being a double adjustable that actually works unlike alot of dampers out there. Thing is most people dont know how to or when to adjust the compression and rebound settings for optimum performance on track or comfort on the street.

My ideal situation would be getting a set of used pss10 and have it revolved. Unfortnately there aren't many used ones for cheap for me to rebuild.

:iagree:

Cossie, I wonder if any 370z in the US actually runs pss10. Are you thinking getting a used set from the 350 crowd then modify to fit? Can't see that to be a cheap option revalved + refit.

Good luck!

What sway bars are you looking to add?

Sent from my Nexus 7

Cv129, they sell them new, so I assume that is different than the 350 ones? I just saw they are a little bit more than the kW, might be worth the extra cash. I also know u can rebuild the bilsteins, I haven't heard the same about kW

I am leaning toward hotchkis

I asked on here awhile back about the PSS10's. Nobody here has them. Was told the S2000 crowd love them. The cheapest I found them for was about $2,500. Right now, I'm undecided on which coil-overs to get. :icon14:

Once I get my SPL arms and bushing done in the front. I'm thinking about getting the Hotchkiss bar in the front too.

Yea they sell them new, I considered them once myself (bought something else on a good deal instead). I was referring to the idea of buying them used then revalved would be difficult, since almost no 370z runs them.

For KW, like takjak mentioned earlier, it may be worth to give Robi of Robispec a call, see if he valves V3. He ran a set on his own track 370z back in 09 or 10 (some ppl say its V3, some say it's clubsport version, I don't know), and he's very well known in the Evo community. Used V3 pop up here and there, used + revalve may still be cheaper than brand new V3.

I saw a set of v3 for 1200, was tempted except I want to find a place that can rebuild them first

Here's a start for ya

Revalving coilovers - evolutionm.net

I think 9 out of 10 people would be happy with a simple set of springs paired with a good damper. I know one vendor sells the Konis/Swifts as a package which should be more than sufficient for most drivers. I'm sure it would be a very street friendly suspension as well and with a good driver behind the wheel you'd be able to lay down some aggressive lap times. It's more about the driver than the hardware at the end of the day.

That's essentially what I see in the kW. It seems like it is for people who drive on the street where bilsteins have a dedicated custom revalve department. I am leaning toward the bilsteins right now.

I almost lose sleep over this same decision lol. From what I have seen, people have said, all the above. At this point I think for me the best decision is a set of Konis and Swifts+cambers. Cambers I think are the easiest instant upgrade that will make anyone faster next time they go to the track. It's a no brainer. I would argue that konis+swifts is a much better buy than a set of one-way's save for the ability to adjust ride height. Two-ways, personally I think would just set me back at this point.

The main decision making point for me though is that my times are still very slow compared to say a guy like clint or martin that are putting in some really fast times. Martin runs in the same driver class as I do(until recently) and he is a good 15 seconds faster than me at Big Willow. Yes some of it is because of hardware. 90% of it is driver ability.


Once I can put in a time at least in the same ballpark as either of those two guys, then maybe it is time for a 2 way setup. It's all about where you are at as a driver.

A guy I know picked up a set of Fortune Auto coils and really likes them. You can also upgrade the spring to Swift springs as well.

Home - Fortune Auto North America

It's the same reason I waited so long to mod because the car becomes a money pit!! Once you start, you are always chasing the dragon. It's almost better to leave it along to keep it simple, buy you just have to be slow

I'm not an engineer, but after looking at the Fortunate Auto stuff I am pretty impressed... They've got it together over there. Their designs are really nice and their dampers are properly valved. I can't speak to their reliability because I have never used them and they certainly haven't been around as long as Bilstein or Penskee, but they have some legitimate suspension setups it seems. Not sure if the shock bodies are stainless or coated to resist corrosion or rust though? That's massively important for long term use. I once had a shitty coilover that was so corroded I couldn't get the locking collars to budge with a 3 foot extension off the collar. They essentially were garbage afterwards. Just don't go overkill on the spring rates. Unless you're REALLY trying to shave milliseconds, which most of us aren't, don't compromise your ride by going with aggressive rates. Over time that just makes stuff like your dashboard rattle and you're car will sound like a 17th century naval ship.

I am going to stick with the known brands as they are easy to offload should I decide to move onto something else. Right now I definitely have the Bilsteins leaning at the top. Yes it is a few hundred dollars more, but I believe their racing department actually knows what they are doing and can help me get the right setup. Of course the information for the 370z Bilstein PSS kit is very limited, I don't even know how they compare with the other ones.

I am also debating hard if I should do a day at the local tracks to get some baselines first before I mod or if I should just do it and go. It's tempting to just order everything, but I need to be responsible and watch what I do. I think the list of upgrades would be sway bars, camber arms, coilovers. Which one should I do first? It's been years since I last modded cars, so need to start all over

LOL.... and I thought my girlfriend over thought stuff.

It's hard to justify spending 5k on a car I track 10x a year...