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If you're gonna stick with the Base brake setup until an eventual AP upgrade, Carbotech isn't a bad bet. XP10 front and XP8 rear worked out pretty well for a few of us on the stock Sport brakes, and I imagine it would be a reasonable solution on the Base brakes as well. Getting some cooling to the front rotors will help as well, either Stillen's brake duct kit or roll your own. Either way it's something you can put on now and will continue to work with the AP kit later. SS lines would be a nice help too, it gives you more-direct pressure feedback in the pedal, because you're not dealing with the "slack" of the expanding/contracting rubber lines.
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Pads and fluid are all you really need need. I'll side with Bobbo and wstar and say that XP10f/XP8r will be great. Big calipers just mean you'll be able to run longer really. My buddy won TTB in the Great Lakes/Midwest region with the stock 350Z calipers and good pads on his 350 if that's any comfort. He had the Brembo calipers but preferred to spend those points on aero.
Start with what you have and upgrade things as you start to see problems. I wish I had taken that approach. |
Carbotech XP10/8 it is. I appreciate the honesty and feedback! Stainless line will jist be done with the new kit so I'll live with stock lines for now.
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I'll be doing a track day once a month probably for the next 4-5 months or as long as they have them. I knew this would be the case which I why I got the LSD. Good luck, btw if you're still on the stock tire size I went with 245/45/18 in front and 275/40/18 in the rear to replace the stock sizes and it has felt great ever since. |
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Another base model here too. I autox'd my 350 with base brakes and pads and dot4 fluid let me run all day with zero fade. I have AP's on my 370 now and I love carbotech pads. Heat is your main enemy so good pads, dot4 fluid and ducting will allow you to run for a while on the base brakes. A LSD was going to be next on my list but aero will be more likely. Car does not feel stable at highway speeds
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My car was hot when I was tracking this weekend. Now the outside air temperature was 35C=95F so you would expect some heating issues.
My car has a GTM stage II turbo kit and a serab 34 row oil cooler also. My water temps went up to 255 and my oil was up to 130 which put my defi oil temp gauge into a blinking mode. Perhaps I need a vented hood or only run on cooler days? |
Surely 130 is a typo?
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thanks |
Water temps of 255 are way too high. Oil temps of 230 are fantastic. It sounds like too much stuff are blocking your radiator and since you can't do anything about that you need to upgrade it.
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Water temps over 220 are alarming. Ideally you wouldn't go much over 200 at all. I prefer to stay UNDER 200, myself, 'swhy I bought a big *** radiator. Are you on stock radiator? If so..that's your issue. |
At our last event in 90 degree temps I saw 232 degree water and 260 degree oil and I have the wide Series 9 Setrab (same cooling BTU as typical Setrab 34 row). I will get a better radiator soon and need to direct flow better to my oil cooler.
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The track is a 12 turn track and only 2 straight areas for passing. Car worked excellent in the morning but some harder driving on course sent alarms going. I guess time to look at a upgraded radiator thanks |
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Kinda of hot for oil temp |
Yeah 266 is too hot. 280 and 300 are the two cutoff points in the ECU for limp mode to protect the engine. At 280F you get rev-limited to something like 5k rpm, and at 300 it's going to cut you way down lower than that on revs. I've done a number of track days with my oil in the 240-260-ish range. It's doable, it's just hotter than you want to be, and you really need to change that oil afterwards. Keeping it down to 220 is much better, and is about as low as you can reasonably shoot for tracking this car in a hot climate.
Dropping those oil and water temps gives you a little edge on power too, because you're not heating up your intake air/fuel as much on the way in with a cooler engine bay in general. |
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The main reason I want a tune is to set the fans to come on earlier!
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I'm not saying 210 isn't fine, but I personally saw my car pull 2-3 degrees the second the coolant ticked over 190. |
^ Was that after UpRev? I thought it only pulled timing if knock.
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It has a much more ... mmmm ... adaptable, we'll say, timing program than previous cars. The car seems to have a very high resolution and high sensitivity knock detection system and will add timing if it sees favorable conditions for it (ie, coolant above warm up level so it's on main tables, but below a threshold, in this case, 190deg F. It will also add timing if you add Torco accelerator or run a higher octane fuel (within reason). At least that has been my experience. |
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My experience has been that our engines will definitely back off the power purposely when temps get above an acceptable level. Part of the engineering dance to deliver the power level we have (which is easy to lose sight of... remember the venerable R34 GT-R or the Supra RZ? Yeah we make 50+ more HP than they did. Just think about that for a bit.) while maintaining reliability and hitting certain cost points (not having racing radiators and giant oil coolers from the factory, etc). |
Well with our engines the temps/timing issue is all about the language you use. It's very adaptable, and it seems to tune timing in both directions until it gets to an optimal point of "just before bad knock." So it's not really fair to say something like "When my water goes over 190 the engine pulls timing on me and I lose power". An equivalent statement that's more correct in its implications would be to say "The car adds timing and makes self-tuning gains when I manage to get the water down to 190". It's not really going by temp, it's going by knock-sensor. Adding more octane rating helps, any kind of cooling always helps. But you'll find you're chasing an unreasonable goal if you never want this engine to "pull timing". It's always pulling timing relative to something, but that something might be unreasonably cold conditions :)
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Which is why I always run 100-octane (RON) on the track - it gives the WCU the best chance of maximising torque (and hence power).
We can get 106 Octane (RON) ELF racing fuel (Formula 1 stuff), but it is $A6/litre .... our Formula Ford racers swear by this stuff as it gives them a 2mph advantage at the endof any logn-sih straight and that in FF is a mssice advantage. However, I am too tight to spend 6 bucks/litre on track day fuel in what is actually my daily driver .. |
Yeah what I've commonly been able to find at tracks around here for higher-end unleaded fuel is Sunoco 260-GTX (which is 103 RON, or 98 using the normal average we see on commercial gas pumps in the US). I usually put a few gallons in once during the weekend just because whatever (too lazy to drive to the gas station and/or hoping it helps clean the system or offset some heat).
Once or twice I've filled up on the stuff, but it just costs too much and I can't really tell the difference on-track definitively. How tired/focused I am, how my tire/suspension setup is doing, and whether I've really got my lines down or not all have like 1000% more impact on my lap times than whether I'm running the best gas or not, at this stage :) |
Great thread!
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I have a track event this weekend and the forcast high is 90 degrees so I am going to log timing to see how it changes as it heats up.
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I believe you can set when the fans come with uprev.
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Cant you also just buy an upgrade thermostat and get the same effect as uprev tuning? Im not the expert by any means I am just throwing that out there for discussion. Thanks for a GREAT thread!!! Sub'd
I just started AUTO X and have been to 2 events and an all day driving school.. Love it. I think for me personally this is where to start learning about driving the car a little harder than street and actually getting a good feel for pedal pressure and breaking and steering so that when you do spin out it is in a parking lot and the most you hit is a cone. Just my 2 bits. My driver training day I ran the hell out of my Z for about an hour and some change straight without going over 240 oil temp and no brake problems.. no fuel problems either at 3/4 tank. TWICE. the only think that hurt me that day was the one run with traction control on. after that I was golden. |
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