TravisJB Track Video
 

This thread is to log my track events and any video and commentary. Of course, feel free to jump in and comment and ask questions. Constructive criticism welcomed too! For mods and upgrade discussion, please visit my journal.

Location/Event: 13-June @ Firebird International Raceway - East Track... NASA AZ event... ~85F... HPDE4 run group
Mods: Stillen (G3 Intake/Headers/HFCs/Cat-back/UD Pulley/Sway Bars), BC Racing ER Series Coilovers, JWT Flywheel and Clutch
Wheels & Tires: Stock/Street
Sponsors: Redline Motorsports, Forged Performance, Doubledown Motorsports

Had 3 very enjoyable track sessions today! FIR East is a short twisty track, with plenty of run-off room, so it is great to run while tuning and getting used to a car. Of which, you may notice a couple missed shifts etc, so let's just keep that to yourself huh ?! :) Fast lap of the day was 1:06.4, which I am very happy with. A 911 GT3RS ran ~0:59, which was the fastest car at the track today. Fastest car in the race group I will eventually run with (NASA PTA) was 1:02. Overall, I think with weight reduction, sticky tires, and some tweaks to improve braking, I should be competitive at this track. NOTE: my camera is currently in a less than ideal location, so you may be a little disappointed with the video. Will be fixed by next track day. If you want to skip to my fastest lap, go to video 2 and find lap #4. AND TURN YOUR SOUND UP!!!! :)

In reverse order, here is my 3rd and final session:


2nd session:



1st session:



IMPRESSIONS AND NEXT STEPS:

• Oil cooling... this continues to be a problem, even with the single core Stillen setup... good news is I never went into limp mode... bad news is I routinely hit 280 and peaked near 290 in a later session... really looking forward to my dual core setup, which is coming soon !!
• Suspension... coilovers are performing well... and the car is cornering very flat... I played with the rebound settings a bit but didn't put effort into tuning today... next time out will be corner balanced and perfectly set up and that'll be the time to try and dial in the settings
• Power... for this short track, I had ALL THE POWER I NEEDED... when I timed it right, had no trouble keeping up with newer M3s and various race cars... I'm going to address the power/weight issue through further weight savings and will prob stop investing in +HPs... I think with 200 lbs off, I could have saved 1.0-1.5 seconds
• Brakes... continue to be an issue... I'm confident that with ideal braking I could have dropped 1.0-2.0 seconds
• Tires... remarkably good and controllable for stock tires... these are fun to drive... I'm sure I don't have too much left though ! :)... move to sticky tires should buy me 2.0 seconds at this track
• Carbonetic diff... very pleased with this! I'm still new to mech diffs and trying to learn how to use it well, but when I played around with my corner exit speed, I found I was able to pretty much floor it coming out of turns and at worst I had very controllable oversteer, at best it sailed out of the corners!
• JWT clutch/flywheel... this is a no-brainer... if you have the $, do it... makes driving much more smooth!
• Summary... feeling pretty good about the car... I think with just a little more work, I may be able to turn a 1:02 or better at this track

too long :) ten min max

Your driving looks very smooth. I can't wait to do the east track. So far at Firebird I have only done main. The corner that you enter at about 24 seconds into every lap, you slow down to around 46mph and leave it in 3rd gear...Did you try dropping to 2nd gear at all to see if you got a better corner exit? In that situation the result can go both ways, just something to consider trying.

Good runs, call me Monday...we need to talk.

Robert

NOTE: ADDED FINAL VIDEO AND SOME THOUGHTS ON SETUP ABOVE

You're right I could drop it into 2nd there... I always used to in my Porsche, but this car has a tendency to overheat... I'd be dropping into about 6000rpm at that speed, in 2nd for a very short time and shifting to 3rd at an inopportune moment (up against rumble strips middle of chicane)... that plus I feel pretty good about the power I was getting out of 3rd relative to the grip I had... maybe with sticky tires... appreciate you taking the time to watch and make an observation ! :)

Sure thing Robert.. nice job setting up the car!

• Quote:

  Oil cooling... this continues to be a problem, even with the single core Stillen setup... good news is I never went into limp mode... bad news is I routinely hit 280 and peaked near 290 in a later session... really looking forward to my dual core setup, which is coming soon !!

I had a similar experience...although I dont remember any 290's. More like 260-270. Lots of WOT at that track though..

• Quote:

  Suspension... coilovers are performing well... and the car is cornering very flat... I played with the rebound settings a bit but didn't put effort into tuning today... next time out will be corner balanced and perfectly set up and that'll be the time to try and dial in the settings

Good to hear the BC's are doing their job well!

• Quote:

  Power... for this short track, I had ALL THE POWER I NEEDED... when I timed it right, had no trouble keeping up with newer M3s and various race cars... I'm going to address the power/weight issue through further weight savings and will prob stop investing in +HPs... I think with 200 lbs off, I could have saved 1.0-1.5 seconds

Same experience here. Most cars couldnt pass me outright on the straights, it was the corners that were the issue haha. I kinda want to start taking some weight off myself... Will focus on that once my suspension is done. How did your alignment settings behave? What were they? What would you do differently?

• Quote:

  Brakes... continue to be an issue... I'm confident that with ideal braking I could have dropped 1.0-2.0 seconds

+1

• Quote:

  Tires... remarkably good and controllable for stock tires... these are fun to drive... I'm sure I don't have too much left though ! :)... move to sticky tires should buy me 2.0 seconds at this track

+1 But my car isnt ready for racing compounds yet. Nor are my skills :)

• Quote:

  Carbonetic diff... very pleased with this! I'm still new to mech diffs and trying to learn how to use it well, but when I played around with my corner exit speed, I found I was able to pretty much floor it coming out of turns and at worst I had very controllable oversteer, at best it sailed out of the corners!

Good to know.. will think about this one in the future.

• Quote:

  JWT clutch/flywheel... this is a no-brainer... if you have the $, do it... makes driving much more smooth!

This is my next mod after suspension :)

• Quote:

  Summary... feeling pretty good about the car... I think with just a little more work, I may be able to turn a 1:02 or better at this track

+1 on feeling good about the car. Mine gets more solid and confidence inspiring with every mod I do to the suspension.

:iagree: If you're going to do anything to this car, do the suspension work first as it will be the most rewarding.

I'm fighting with the brakes at every event to try and get them to work correctly. I'm convinced the problem is electronic at this point, their fancy electronic brake force distribution software isn't working for crap. At the next auto-cross event I will be pulling the ABS fuse (a challenge in itself!) to confirm my theory.

RCZ, thanks for the comments... does this mean your supercharging ambitions are on hold? Mine are, at least until I figure out which TA and race classes I will run with... don't want to put myself in 'unlimited' categories everywhere and not be competitive (with 650hp vipers, purpose built race cars, etc)

Chris, I'm really interested in what you find out on the brakes... Figure it out and you've got some +reps coming your way !!! :) Perhaps you could test combination of ducting and ABS bypass both?? I think the lack of air is a serious issue as well

What I have learned so far is that the problem manifests itself once heat soak reaches a certain part of the brake/wheel assembly. With appropriate pads you can drive like a maniac, heat the rotors to insane temperatures and everything will work fine. Let the car sit, and the heat soaks into other parts, calipers, wheel hub, sensors etc, then things go wrong.

On Saturday I had the liberty of spreading out some auto-cross runs over a period of time. After the first run on our long 110 second course the brakes worked fine and I let the car sit and cool down for a good 20 minutes on a nice 70 degree day. At the end of that first run oil temperature exceeded 260F, and brake temperature was probably a reasonable 500-600F, calipers were cool to the touch. After that 20 minutes, the brakes rotors had cooled to below 200F (I could touch them but not hold my hand on it) and the calipers now felt quite warm to the touch (approx 120F). On the very next run after that 20 minute cool down the brakes malfunctioned on the second application of the brake pedal which was approximately 30 seconds into the run. It's hard to hear what is going on over the engine, but you can hear the ABS actuator pulsing the front brakes and you feel as though you're driving on loose sand except that there is plenty of lateral grip. You will also feel the pedal push up just slightly but you don't feel much modulation. If this was a panic stop from 70 mph the stopping distance would have been 40-50% longer than normal and you likely would have crashed, fortunately I'm only hitting cones at this point.

Other observations, if you brake gently and straight enough you can avoid the problem 90% of the time. If you suddenly lift off the gas and hit the brake pedal firmly the computer is programmed to boost the brake pressure enough to activate ABS (Brake Assist) and you will experience the problem. To avoid this you have to lift off the gas and then gradually apply the brakes, which costs time and distance.

Which part exactly is being affected by the heat I'm not sure, but I'm fairly confident that it is not the rotors. They are generating the heat which then radiates out to other parts. High friction pads make the problem worse because they are more grabby and make it easier to activate ABS and generate more heat more quickly.

Ducting may help to reduce temperatures but it won't solve the problem.

Next time out I'm going to try and bring an infrared pyrometer and get some more accurate readings. I will also try and get a fuse module that I can hack up so that I can disable ABS without killing the VVEL and the power windows (the module covers 3 slots).

Very helpful response, thanks. I've been struggling to describe how my brakes have felt under these conditions but I think you've hit on it exactly when you said it is like "driving on lose sand..." I've also noticed that when it fails in this way, the ABS seems to kick in sooner / with less pressure, so that when you back out of the pedal enough to NOT get ABS involved it is at a lower pressure and thus stopping distance is increased... in other words, you're screwed either way.

Really look forward to your testing results with pyrometer. I think this will shed light on theory that heat is spreading to electronics/sensors as root cause.

I'd like to see some aftermarket mfgrs throw some R&D at this problem too... we're going to need more than just us guys trying to solve it on a shoestring. There need to be more fixes to this problem other than just "here's a big brake kit"... BBKs will be a good option for some - maybe me! - but not most, I suspect.

Travis

Does anyone have pads/rotors/race fluid yet? I want to know if that fixes all our issues...

Not it... here's the list I'm working through:

1. ATE fluid... check
2. pads... partial check... HP+
3. air/ducting... not yet, but soon
4a. rotors... not yet -OR-
4b. BBK... not yet

Did DannyGT or Semtex get rotors? there was some discussion covered on another thread somewhere

I think that is what it is going take. Sadly I think BBK's alone aren't even going to fix this, and there are going to be some angry customers who will have spent $4K on one only to find out the brakes still go to crap. My amateur diagnostic skills aren't going to figure this one out unfortunately. What feels really weird is that when it just starts happening it feels like you are driving over patches of sand on the road as it cycles between stopping well and ABS hell. The hotter things get the more it cycles away from the well side.

It could be as simple as we are driving the car outside of the parameters programmed into the ABS computer, but only Nissan Japan knows that answer.

I have pads (HP+ good enough for my temps currently), slotted rotors, and ATE Blue fluid. The problem is still exactly the same.

On the plus side it should solve your rotor gouging issue, but sadly the brakes will still feel like crap.

Journal updated just now with new mod decision!

This really really bothers me. If this happens anyway, Nissan has a lawsuit on their hands. Im not going to kill myself because of a stupid brake failure.

Supercharging is on hold hehe. I want to live.

Smart move! I really want to figure out the stopping problem before I add any more go.

I can't believe we are the only 3 people in the country that drive their cars hard enough to experience this?

wonder what they did for brakes on that Le Mans car...

[RANT] If it is a heat transfer issue, I suspect it will be a murky diagnosis and hard to hold Nissan accountable... they are going to be within reasonable operating parameters for street use... gents, this issue is THE difference between Porsche and Nissan... Porsche builds cars you can drive hard every day... Nissan builds cars that sell at a price point... I'm still pleased with the car overall, but these kinds of issues add up [/RANT]

Good videos.

I have a few suggestion on making your videos more fun to watch:

Mount your camera higher, then point it down a little so we can see the track in front of the car.

Zoom in a little so more of the video is showing track rather than your seatback and side pillars and center console. Seeing the shifter and steering wheel is cool, but there's lots more of the screen that's just dark shadow not showing anything.

Can you shrink the data logger banner a little? It would still be easy to read if it were a little smaller and then show more track.

At speed, the microphone is distorting from too much input from moving air. Maybe a piece of cloth over or directly in front of the mic would help?

Stretch to 16:9 format if it will let you, so you use the sides of the screen. If you do this, you can mount the camera where the passenger's head would be, then the panoramic effect shows you steering, shifting, and track, but not dash and headliner.

Please, please, plase hook up your tach lead. Seems like you could make the system still temporary mount in the cabin, but with permanent mount tach lead coming from back of gauge cluster or even under hood. It helps us figure out how hard you are pushing through certain sections.

Again, very cool videos!

Thanks,

-Phim

I know it was frustrating to watch the crappy camera position! Was for me too... I should have tested it more first... All good points and nearly all being addressed

DONE... I have a new camera position now that is MUCH better

Maybe... The new position is forward somewhat, but you can still see legs, arms and shifter... I like it that way, tells me how car is respondign to my inputs... Eventually I'll install a second camera and will have pic in pic covering part of the black, and as you note the 'electronic dashboard' covers another part

I don't think the software allows this... I can adjust the opacity though

Chasecam is working on this... Can't be done with current cam

Absolutely... will be adding that soon by dropping a line through the dash... doing it concurrently with new gauge install

The greatest part of that video is the downshifting speed with the new clutch.

It is unquestionably faster now and when I up-shift I can do so quickly and not worry about the engine catching up to slower RPM

Once I get the RPM wire connected will be really apparent how quickly the rpms change

...no sour grapes, I joined last winter thinking this was my next car....now all I can say is I honestly do feel for you guys, sucks that you continue to experience systemic problems just having a bit of fun on track. Moreover even well thought out mods don't solve issues you'd hoped they would. I think the 370Z is a beautiful car w/amazing potential as a reasonably priced track car, but I'd have to say I'm am so glad I didn't give in to temptation and get one myself early on.

I was feeling I needed more power (like the 370z) than my RX-8 had to offer. How ungrateful I was! I'm realizing now ...what is DOES offer is an off-the-showroom-floor track worthy car both ready to run hard AND sell at a reasonable ~$30K pricepoint.

Consider ...at a recent 2 day adv DE Porsche event - two alternating 1/2 hr sessions solo & instructors - 8 session/day for 4 hrs track time for 2 days running = 8 hrs under full throttle. Result: no engine temp problems whatsoever, no brake fade or overheating, drive it home, just maximum fun.

I truly wish you guys all the luck in getting your cars sorted out. Damn Nissan for dropping the ball as it has. If you can (or Nissan steps up) actually sort out the 370Z's problems, it'll still stay on my replacement shortlist. Until then I'm lovin the one I'm :driving: with. No drama has its advantages, even w/a bit of HP shortage...and saving up for the next what-ever-it-is!

mazda rotories have a special place in my heart... first car was a 79! i had a second gen as well... GREAT cars... both the z and the rx8 deserve to be on anyone's list if they're looking for a recent model car as a track toy... but yes, the z has some 'issues to sort' to say it nicely

Location/Event: 11-July @ Miller Motorsports - West Track... PCA IR event... ~90F... Advanced group
Mods: Stillen (G3 Intake/Headers/HFCs/Cat-back/UD Pulley/Sway Bars), BC Racing ER Series Coilovers, JWT Flywheel and Clutch... dual core Redline oil cooler... AP Racing Big Brake kit
Wheels & Tires: Stock/Street
Sponsors: Redline Motorsports, Forged Performance, Doubledown Motorsports

Video from my 7/11 track day at Miller Motorsports West Track with the IR Porsche Club. Camera placement updated, but I am still working on setting up the RPM wire, so unfortunately no RPM still!

This was my third session. My fastest time of the day was 1:48.5 second lap of this session. I think I could have managed better but unfortunately day was cut short due to mechanical issue. O2 sensor cam loose at headers and caused the engine to sputter and eventually cut out. In fact on my 1:48.5 lap, you will notice that just before the hairpin I am pumping the gas... oh well ! Fastest time of the day I believe was 1:43 set during time trial by one of the PCA racers



And here is a moment slightly later in the 3rd session when the engine just cuts off completely... I managed to coast to parking lot... thought I had lost an(other) engine, but turned out to be a simple matter of reconnecting the sensor

By the way, the lotus you see at the end was on my tail for almost all of session 3 then eventually got by me... stock exige on slicks driven by dude named Eli, great guy and great driver

Some quick impressions on recent upgrades...

AP Racing brakes... I had zero fade!!! :) I'm still getting used to these brakes and I for sure didn't use their full potential... hard braking into the hairpin, and it felt entirely effortless, much more so than stock sport brakes... again, zero fade, but I think a true test will be this fall at my home track of PIR (hot day, more intense braking zones)... my sense is that my stopping distance has improved slightly as well... I will be posting a more complete review of these with pics in the coming weeks

dual oil cooler setup... my shop has asked me to not go into too much detail on this yet until they are ready to announce and offer to the public, but I at least have to let you all know that this is going to be the be all, end all of oil coolers.... nothing is going to eliminate heat, but this setup brings the heat down to a level where you don't have to think about it anymore... running extremely hard at near 100F ambient, I never saw 250F oil temp... most of the time I was 170-220F ! :)

Great video! :tup: Camera mount is def better. I did see you pump the gas in the video and I was like :wtf:. Is the car fixed now?

Hey AK... yeah, so far as I know reconnecting the o2 sensor did the trick... it is possible there is some other factor in play, but I really think it must have been the o2 sensor because I drove back to AZ for 10 hours last night (okay 7 hours!) and all was good... can't tell you how frustrating it was to get passed while I was pumping the gas pedal ! argh... at least it was a good driver that passed me !

Travis great thread, feedback, and vids. Glad you are enjoying the Traqmate. It's probably hard to imagine tracking without it now.

What image quality are you using in your vids? The MMP vids look terrific. Nice camera angle, and placement. You can also change the settings to get rid of the footers at the bottom of the screen.

Hope to see you when we make our swing out west.

I hear you on the brakes and oil coolers. We have used dual oil coolers on the 350Z with great success, or switch to one really massive core. :) We run Motul 300V 15-50 all the time which is one of the best, if not the best extreme heat and duty oils. Might give it a try, especially if routinely seeing 280F+ oil temps.

We have an exciting ,otorsports announcement coming as it relates to the 370Z. Something you, and others that track their Z's will be very interested in. :)

Hey Sharif, thanks for your note.... can't wait to hear about your announcement!

Using "high" setting for video on the trackmate... then processed at "high" quality in traqmate software at 1024x768 resolution... then uploaded at 1024x768 to youtube... you're right though, still doesn't look right... did you try hitting the "HD" switch? that does improve it somewhat... I'm still trying to find the setting that allows me to turn off the g meters, let me know if you know how

traqmate is extremely useful for time trial... tells you if you are on pace or not and could save a lot in tires by letting you end laps early when you've blown a corner or whatever... also fun to use for DEs so you get instant feedback on lap times!

using that exact oil now, I think it is contributing to cooler temps

Not the most exciting track I've ever seen, but awesome video and thread non-the-less. Thanks very much for the videos Travis. Rep sir.

Thanks RCZ. It is actually a pretty cool track given all the run-off room you can take lots of risks. Not ultra technical and too flat, but very high speed when they combine west and east together... Facilities are state of the art... ALMS ran there recently. I'm a fan.

*Really* nice vid. You certainly fixed the camera location; it looks awesome.

Way to put that Porsche where it belonged too.

Can't wait to get out on the track in this thing...

Thanks Imag... be sure to update us once you get some track time... once the heat issue is resolved, this is definitely a fun car to take to the track... I'm aiming to build a porsche-killer, which is always fun... no spite or envy, just gratifying to take on 'superior' vehicles ;)

Hey nice job with the track racing havent made it to a road course as of yet but someday soon I hope. Just curious it seems as if your gearing is defferent than mine. I know that when I go to the drags which I have done I am able to push third gear to about 95 or so and yet I see you shifting around 80 or so. Just curious have you changed the gearing or was this just to help keep engine heating up under control?

Thanks.

I tend to shift early in this car... probably comes from the days before I got my dual oil cooler setup and was constantly worried about overheating! I will get more aggressive about it as time goes on...

No change in gearing and no plans to do so other than changing the diameter of tires in next couple mos

oooh i see Traqmate :D

Yessir(?)... a great learning tool, very happy with it