Gt3rs ftw!

I know, we already determined the Z is the best in every way. :p

Have you ever been in an actual sports car? The Z is pretty far from a "pure" sports car...

What is a "pure" sports car then?

Dude, of course the guy with the 1 series and a range rover is the expert on sports cars, didn't ya know. He's the expert. 410 whp with just an ecu tune! Bow down to the expert haha. So asinine.

The elise, viper, older miata's, etc are all way closer to a pure sports car than the Z.

I'm failing to see the distinction. The base sport Z is 3200 lb, 2 seat, rwd 300+ HP car that has very few frills to detract away from power and driving experience (no nav, no heavy power sapping leather power seats). It comes with stock wheels that are as light or lighter than most aftermarket wheels of the same size and a stiff suspension. It's loud, it's bumpy, it's a very similar driving experience to a Porsche. I agree on the Elise and Miata's but their claim to fame is a lack of practicality that makes a Z look like a 5 door hybrid.

By this reasoning, would you then say that a Porsche c2S with leather seats, traction control, and sat/nav is not a "pure sports car"?

If the Z went on a diet you might be able to call it a pure sports car.

You calling my girl fat? :p

she's a little porky:inoutroflpuke:

So then a sports car needs to be less than 3000 lbs? A sport base Z weights 40 pounds more than a Porsche gt2. Miata's, elise's, and s2k's are nice and light and that makes them easier to drive and handle better. I think it's philosophical semantics.

Hey, she has big thighs, why you hatin?

If you're going to call it a pure sports car, I expect 10lbs/horse, and no unnecessary things like AC.

I lub da curves, she's just not cut out as a supermodel:icon17:

Ok then. So every Porsche except a GT3RS is not a pure sports car. Got it...

I think youre confusing a pure sports car with a track prepped race car. Anyone who seriously races a car will remove the AC, power steering, ABS, etc. But you can do that to any race prepped track car and call it race ready. Doesn't make it a sports car.

Nope. A sports car can still have things like a full interior.


You can keep believing your nissan is a purebred sports car if you want. The S2000 came a whole lot closer to being a real sports car than this Z ever will, and I still wouldn't call it a pure sports car.

And the guy with a budget sport coupe is? A sports car it is, but a "pure sports car" it is not. A GT3/GT2 and/or the RS variants, F430, 458 Italia, Viper ACR-X, GT-R, etc... would be a pure sports car in my opinion. What do these all have in common? They aren't $29,000.

The Z can't even last on a race track more than a few laps without putting on an oil cooler and upgraded brake pads! Even my pathetic little girly 1 series lasted for a good 25 minutes on the track with stock everything...and an extra 80 hp meaning additional heat everywhere.

So you tell me, does a "purebred sports car in every sense of the word" not come with adequate cooling and stopping components from the factory? Or does that just mean that Nissan doesn't believe it is, either?

That being said, I still love the 370z. It is a great package for the money, and I'd say the best thing under Cayman S prices if you're looking for an attractive, quick, and reasonably comfortable sports car.

Don't turbo 1/3/5 series overheat if pushed hard, too?

Not arguing, just asking.

yes and go into limp mode. C&D had it happen testing the 2 on the track. I think it was the G not the Z though

I ran my 135 at my track on Friday with stock everything (including engine oil, brake fluid, etc...) except my piggyback tune which adds around 80 hp. I did 25 minutes at a time out there, pushing the car the entire time. The brakes did not fade and the motor stayed at around 280 degrees (340 is limp mode on these cars) the entire time. This was about 15-20 laps each session, maybe 20 minutes between sessions, 4 times. I couldn't honestly lay down 5 continuous hard laps with the Z without some major brake fade or my clutch overheating pretty bad.

I put my setups and lap times here too:

Car / Anticipated Crank HP / Modifications / Best Lap / Top Track Speed:
370z / 332 bhp / R-Comps, HP+ pads / 1:50.7 / 119 mph
370z / ~355 bhp / hotchkis sways, R-Comps, HP+ pads, high flow cats, stillen exhaust / 1:46.5 / 124 mph

135i / 300 bhp (Probably more like 250) / M3 front sway / 1:57.4 / 114 mph
135i / ~370 bhp (Probably more like 320) / JB4 map 5, M3 front sway / 1:53.1 / 122 mph

The above laps by the 1 had some serious heat soak. I also only had access to 91 octane, with 100 octane it can run more boost and the hp goes up to about 400 bhp. The car pulls much harder on the street than the 370 did, which was confirmed by some DynoMaster for Android runs showing sub 10 second 0-100 times, where the Z could do around 12 seconds. Unfortunately, it does need some sort of intake temp cooling to hold the higher HP on the track. No problem on the street when you only do bursts of acceleration, but on the track the intake temps really hurt the FI engine (just power wise). This did not seriously affect the driveability of the car, but it did have a very noticeable loss in power. Luckily, my methanol injection kit will not only dramatically reduce intake temps, but will effectively give 105+ octane gas as well, allowing for much more boost. I hope to find a 370z to race on the track once I get my R-Comps and meth kit installed, it should be a pretty close race if he has the same setup I used to have on my old Zizzle :driving:

I'm not going to argue with you man. If you think price is what determines a pure sports car that's fine. Anyone taking any car on a track that doesn't come standard with drilled/slotted rotors is still going to upgrade the lines, fluids, and cooling system. And even still, with pads, stainless lines, and an oil cooler, you're tacking a grand total of $1000 onto the price of the car. Why didn't Nissan add an OEM oil cooler to the Z? I really don't know. All I do know is that I bought my car from the largest volume Nissan dealer in PA and even they had trouble locating a hard-top, manual model for me. Why? Because they were getting flooded with people (lots of women) looking for automatic convertible models, and that's what the factory was pumping out. I have yet to see a female in a 370Z, but that's what they were telling me. So if you're never pushing the car and just using it as a cheap roadster, you can get away without an oil cooler. Why the Nismo didn't have one, that I can't explain at all. It should have at least been available as a dealer option.

I do agree that all the cars you mentioned are pure sports cars. But I also think this has taken such a ridiculous turn in terms of semantics. The 370Z is a sports car. The Lotus elise is certainly more "pure" in the sense that it is stripped down and has no real interior. So is the GT2/GT3/RS models.

Oh and Red Zed...you say the s2k is more of a pure sports car? Why would anyone build a "sports car" with the only model being a convertible. You're automatically weaking the chassis by doing that, and if you choose to add chassis re-inforcement under the car, you're adding weight. So, just because the s2k is small, light, and makes 120 hp/liter, I would contest that the fact it is only offered as a convertible kind of kills it as a pure sports car.

Cars like the Porsche 918 and Audi R8 spyder's have extra chassis re-inforcement but it adds weight. They can obviously make up for the power:weight ratio by offering well over 500 bhp. And if a pure sports car belongs on a track, why then would it be a convertible (more drag, less chassis rigidity, less safety). Of course adding a roll cage makes this a moot point, but last time I checked the s2k doesn't come with a cage as a factory option. And the aforementioned supercar sypders were actually designed in wind tunnels to incorporate the structure into the aerodynamics. I just don't know who would want to have the wind whipping around them going 140 mph.

So what the hell is the definition of a "pure" sports car? Small, light, stripped out, high hp?

The point is, the 370z is just a budget sports car. You called it a "pure sports car in every sense of the word", to which we were just pointing out that it's not in any way a pure sports car. Nissan had a chance to make the Nismo a real track/sports car, but instead added a marginal power increase, barely stiffer suspension, and a weird body kit. That says to me that Nissan really is just catering to the masses (namely women, just like the 1 series :rolleyes:) with the 370 and the looks of the car are the most important part. I love the looks of the 370 and it has a real presence on the road, but Nissan clearly doesn't feel that it is a car that is supposed to be on the racetrack (if at all) more than the street.

:drama:

The s handles and feels more like a pure sports car. Some people will argue that a car must be a roadster to qualify as a sports car, asl well.

If you agree the lotus is more pure, I think we are done here. I was just responding to your "pure sports car in every sense" comment.

nissan probably did less on helping amature racers than any other company, does it surprise you that they dont make a perfect car?

with all the back and forth on sports cars, how many people have actually been on a road course duh.

Yea there's really not much worth talking about anymore. Most of the track events I go to I see rich guys in fast, expensive "pure sports cars" spinning out, over-steering into the infield, etc. They have these wonderful cars but can't drive them for $hit. And in terms of a "budget sports car", wouldn't the GT-R be in that category as well? Relatively speaking, 85 grand for one of the best production cars ever made that competes (and beats) cars that cost three times as much seems like a "budget car". My point is that price isn't really relevent when you consider the fact that you need to be a professional level driver to experience what powerful, exotic rwd cars can do on a track. And lets face it, the majority of those cars are purchased for all the wrong reasons. My parents live near Missy Elliot and I got one of my old cars tinted at a place that was installing a stereo system in her powder blue gallardo. Is she taking that car on a track to test out the stock brakes and cooling system? Except in rare instances I have found that driving ability, and "enthusiast rating" is inversely proportional to the price of the automobile. There are exceptions of course, but the enxt track day you go to check out the skill in the exotics. Last NASA event I was at all the driving instructors had race prepped vettes. Definitely a budget car by industry standards, but a hell of a car.

But yea, I'll agree that the Z is not the purest form of a sports car. But I would also not want a "super duper pure" sports car for a DD. I've been in a GT3, it's hellish unless you have smooth roads. I can't imagine an RS.

my prius is faster than an old porsche 914, fb rx7 and triumphs at the track, does it make them less of a sports car? i actually call the british roadsters garbage, but thats another story?

Thanks for confirming. It is a sports car, budget or not.

Nobody said it wasn't :confused:

Anyways, looks like my work here is done. Back to bummer bashing and defense.

whats the point of adding the "probably more like" number to your quotes?? Is that so you can seem like its doing more with less??!!? this is so childish you keep sing up you BMW man, i wouldnt take it over a Z for any track event, Ever. I got an oil cooler for 250!!!! My temps never go above 180-190 on waaay longer track events that what you posted, in texas heat. And about the brake pad issue, nissan, spec'd them out wrong, but the Z's brakes have amazing stopping power with a correct pad. The clamp force is there, just a bad spec'd pad that costs even less than my oil cooler...so again quit taking little indirect jabs at the 370Z by contrasting statements like "even my little girlie 135I blah blah blah". If some one called you car girly, they obviosly dont know too much. If you want to preach how much better you car is then a thread on your forum would be best. Most guys on here have allot of track time and experince to know what Z is and is capable and will not agree that your car is better. Hell i can guarentee if you go to track event and ask a wide variety of **enthusiasts** 8x out of 10 will pick Z over yours





The car pulls much harder on the street than the 370 did, which was confirmed by some DynoMaster for Android runs showing sub 10 second 0-100 times, where the Z could do around 12 seconds.

and about this^ :rolleyes::bowrofl::thumbsdown::wtf:

thats a straight insult to real track heads

i wouldnt say most z owners have a lot of track time, i think most are probably hacks (i am the biggest one). you are giving us too much credit.

we like fast and furious,vin diese lis the bald jesus

I have a lot of track time and I'll say that an old Miata is the best car to learn in. The Z has way too much power for a beginner. That's why I laugh when I see 17 year old's in 400 hp mustangs. Just asking for trouble.

Push, you shaved 4 secs off your lap time just with sway bars, HFC's, and exhaust? That's pretty nice.

GZ, do you use an aggressive street pad or a race pad?

Push was arguing it wasn't earlier, I just quoted him for reference and responded.

There are 19 Year Old kids in Pro Racing so being 17 and having a 400hp Mustang doesn't matter. Knowing how to drive Does. A 16 year old kid with Good amount of track days is better at driving than a 40 year old without any track days.

Never said it wasn't. Have repeatedly been saying the Z is a sports car, but the entire argument was based on the fact that the Z was called a "pure sports car in every sense of the word". Loved my 370z, still do.

First of all, the probably more like is related to the G's under acceleration graphs I had. It was pulling slightly harder on the tune that is supposed to make 370~ hp than the stock tune, which is where I'm basing that off of. Not to mention the fact that the 135 and 370 weights are near identical, and is slightly less aerodynamic...which produced similar top speeds on the straightaway. The just tells me about what my actual crank hp was...

I'm not preaching that the 135 is a better track car than the 370z in any way. I have over and over said the 370 is a better handling car, has decent power, and is therefore a great deal if you want a car you can reasonably drive a few or most days of the week that you'd like to also track. I would pick a moderately modified 370z over a moderately modified 135i any day of the week if it came to which one I want to track, or hands down the 370 if money were no object.

Second of all, Dyno master for android is incredibly accurate. It was within 3 hp of my actual dyno numbers, and within .1 seconds of video timing for the 0-100 runs.

Yep, the 370z really responds to the hotchkis bars. I was easily able to outrun C6 Z06's through the curves with the sways and R-Comps. Without the sway bars the car had pretty massive understeer, comparatively. You can kill a driver that isn't totally comfortable with their car almost no matter what they have. I have some pics somewhere of me riding an ACR-X viper around a turn, he was pretty pissed. He even asked me if the car was turboed :rofl2:

The 370 is a sports car, I never said that. I said it wasn't what I'd call a "pure sports car", because it is not. A pure sports car should be able to go from the showroom to the track with nothing changed and run hard the whole time. I am well aware that you can make it track ready for under $1000, but that is irrelevant in what we were arguing.

Once again, I love the 370z. It is a great car all around and can be quite a beast at the racetrack with a couple thousand in modifications. I would still have mine if I had the time or room for a third car, but at this point in my life I have two garage spaces, commute a ways to school, and still want to get on a track every couple of weeks. That's why I don't have it anymore, not because I think a 1 series is a better race car than a Z, because it is not.

you hit the wrong nerves with these guys. bmw 1 or 3 series is like the 350z to the rx8s. owners get very defensive when you make any points about how their car isnt perfect.

on another note, you ran faster on your other track day because you drove better and had the mods. mods alone wont get you 5 sec, not those mods anyway

Mmmm I'll half agree with you. You could run faster without the bolt ons and sway bars, but at the same time it's pretty damn difficult to do so. The sway bars make it much easier to drive a heck of a lot faster. You can carry a ton more speed through the turns.

agree, but five seconds difference on a two minute course? no one would be buying tires.

obviously. i'm sure shumi, kimi, montoya etc were pretty good at 16